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Introducing Visual Studio’s Emulator for Android

288 points by AaronFriel 12y ago

terrence_giggy 12y ago
Visual Studio had always been what I perceive to be the most polished work environment (IDE) i've used. Despite that I have moved away from Microsoft and into Linux based environments over the past couple years. The thought of working out of Visual Studio for all of my Android, Node.js and .NET projects is very tempting. I however didn't see any mention for Maven / Gradle support, and my latest VS is 2012. Anyone here with some insight into dependency management outside of NuGet? Sometimes I have nightmares of updating Newtonsoft.Json (https://www.nuget.org/packages/Newtonsoft.Json/ https://www.nuget.org/packages/Newtonsoft.Json/) and chasing down all of the version conflicts for the next several days.
- gagege 12y ago
  Android and iOS development in VS will be done via Xamarin, Cordova, or C++. That's why you don't see Maven or Gradle support anywhere, there's no Java involved.
  - LoneWolf 12y ago
    So no native android development? Or am I wrong thinking these options are not native.
    - bratsche 12y ago
      It depends on your definition of native. Xamarin lets you use all the native Android APIs, but you're using them via bindings in C# or F# instead of Java.
    - gagege 12y ago
      The C++ and Xamarin stuff is native. Take a look at Xamarin.Forms. It looks very nice.
    - on_and_off 12y ago
      Yes and no. Xamarin does some binding to the native APIs but you are going to code in C#. Even if it is your favorite language in the world, I don't think that Xamarin is a good platform to develop non-trivial apps. If you need to develop something relatively simple on multiple platforms, Xamarin is a good way to do it once on iOS & Android.
untog 12y ago
This looks fantastic - Google's emulator offering has always been so poor that I turned to Genymotion. The only shame is that we won't see the same for iOS, given that the simulator requires OS X.
felixrieseberg 12y ago
This is a great time to reiterate that startups receive Microsoft's software for free, obviously including all versions of Visual Studio. Check out BizSpark.com or get in touch with me if you happen to be a YC company (felix.rieseberg@microsoft.com).
- pzxc 12y ago
  You mean they receive Microsoft's software for free for 3 years, after which they get a discounted price for 2 years as an "alumni", after which they have to pay full price now they are fully on your stack and have large switching costs. I'm not buying that Trojan horse.
  - atwebb 12y ago
    Isn't that information made clear up front so that a company can make an informed decision? Maybe it'd be an apt comparison if the Trojan's put a big sign on the front saying: "Acceptance of this horse constitutes acceptance of a (up till now) secret invasion"
  - peripitea 12y ago
    If you're starting a business, "what will our operating costs be in 3-5 years?" is just about the last thing you should be worried about. In fact, I'd guess that most new business owners would love to end up facing that problem. I certainly would. Plus, it's not like they gouge you after 5 years; Microsoft has a strong incentive to keep its products/services competitively priced. I'm far from a Microsoft fan, but I fail to see how BizSpark is anything but a huge boon to the startup/small business community.
    - rbanffy 12y ago
      > I fail to see how BizSpark is anything but a huge boon to the startup/small business community. For starters, it encourages a bad habit: using the Microsoft stack and deploying on Windows. Unless you are significantly more productive by using this toolset, I'd advise against it. Having said that, most startups fail, so, chances are using Windows will not be a problem 3-5 years down the road.
kozikow 12y ago
How does it compare to Genymotion? It would be much more interesting comparison than stock emulator.
- bratsche 12y ago
  One difference is that it probably doesn't include adware/malware.
  - y2bd 12y ago
    I hadn't heard of Genymotion having adware/malware previously. Would you mind linking a source?
cek 12y ago
When we built the WP7 emulator (not really an emulator because that implies cpu emulation) we chose to make it x86 based, using virtual machine tech. We could do this and get great performance because all 3rd party apps used managed CLR code and thus were processor independent. Later the WP8 emulator was actually fully based on Hyper-v and this is too...meaning it is "just" a vm running x86 android, which explains why it's so fast.
- ja27 12y ago
  The Hyper-V requirement is kind of a pain - or rather, the requirements to run Hyper-V are a pain. On non-server versions of Windows, it's only available on Windows 8+ Pro / Enterprise. So anyone with Windows 7 or non-Pro Windows 8 can't run it. I've been to a few Windows Phone developer camps and this is always an issue for attendees.
wasyl 12y ago
Does anyone know what kind of development for Android does VS offer? I guess it's not java, and I'm not familiar with options
- Aldo_MX 12y ago
  From the article: With Visual Studio 2015 Preview you can target Android and edit-compile-debug regardless of your choice of programming models: JavaScript (or TypeScript) with Cordova, C++, or C# with Xamarin.
  - wasyl 12y ago
    Thanks! I must've missed it
  - gcb0 12y ago
    any famous apps done with cordova?
    - Aldo_MX 12y ago
      http://phonegap.com/app/feature/ http://phonegap.com/app/feature/
    - AdamTReineke 12y ago
      Wikipedia's app used to be. Not sure if that's the app they still run across all the platforms though. https://github.com/wikimedia/WikipediaMobile https://github.com/wikimedia/WikipediaMobile
  - Avalaxy 12y ago
    I wonder how much effort it would be to support C# as well, without Xamarin. Would they ever do that? Or would they prefer to not hurt Xamarin (or maybe Google/Apple) too much by offering their own C# crossplatform development?
    - greyskull 12y ago
wvenable 12y ago
I've only slightly dabbled in Android development: installing the SDK, IDE, build a "hello world", and run in an emulator. I've done a bit of old-school mobile development (Symbian, WinMobile) and I was very surprised how poor the emulation experience was for Android. It looks like Microsoft might have a better Android emulation workflow than Google. What strange times!
- blinkingled 12y ago
  >It looks like Microsoft might have a better Android emulation workflow than Google. What strange times! Sure but keep in mind that Google has to produce an emulator that emulates ARM, MIPS and x86 and all of that has to work on Windows, Linux and Mac. Significantly different and tougher challenge!
  - bravo22 12y ago
    Android apps are Java based. Google does not need to do what you just said.
    - myko 12y ago
      Android's NDK supports much more than just Java
      - bravo22 12y ago
        True but the vast majority of Android developers don't need to use NDK. Additionally the native part can run as x86 code. It doesn't need to be emulated.
        eropple 12y ago
        This isn't true, as anybody who sees bugs on the iPhone that don't show up on the Simulator will be happy to tell you. You test on an emulator when you have the option because it's the hardware you're actually deploying against. And, again, Android does not run Java and characterizing it as such is ignorance of the environment involved.
dested 12y ago
This is incredible, perfect for xamarin or phonegag. Cant wait to use it
giancarlostoro 12y ago
This is great, the main thing really keeping me from Android development is the Emulators. I'm going to try this out. I love Visual Studio, never thought I'd get to do Android development on it, I wish Visual Studio for Ubuntu / Mac would come next though, but this is good enough for me!
Dorian-Marie 12y ago
This is a great time to reiterate that startups receive Microsoft's software for free, obviously it's a trap and you should not be hooked to Microsoft technology if you want to iterate quickly.
- bigdubs 12y ago
  "hooked to Microsoft technology if you want to iterate quickly." Why the hatchet comment? What basis do you have for saying this?
maresca 12y ago
Such amazingly convenient timing. I just picked up my droid app I paused on working on. Definitely going to give this a shot. Thanks for posting! Microsoft is so hot right now!
RachelF 12y ago
Right now it is x86 Android only, not ARM, which is the vast majority of Android devices: "You need to recompile your code for x86. If you have parts of your code that can only be compiled for ARM, or you depend on 3rd-party libraries for which you do not have an x86 version, your code will not run on our emulator at this point."
- kpozin 12y ago
  I believe those are the same limitations as on the x86 emulator provided by Google/Intel.
kayman 12y ago
Its great news, but I think it will take some time before the developers that grew up thinking of MSoft as a closed shop will slowly change their minds. A few "wow" open source releases will really help shift this mindset.
pjmlp 12y ago
So Microsoft is able to provide a better Android emulator than Google itself. I really wonder who is developing Android at Google, when I look at the emulator, open bugs in the SDK or NDK support. I guess spending resources moving from Eclipse to Android Studio and still not there, after one year is more important.

288 points by AaronFriel 12y ago

Visual Studio had always been what I perceive to be the most polished work environment (IDE) i've used. Despite that I have moved away from Microsoft and into Linux based environments over the past couple years. The thought of working out of Visual Studio for all of my Android, Node.js and .NET projects is very tempting. I however didn't see any mention for Maven / Gradle support, and my latest VS is 2012. Anyone here with some insight into dependency management outside of NuGet? Sometimes I have nightmares of updating Newtonsoft.Json (https://www.nuget.org/packages/Newtonsoft.Json/ https://www.nuget.org/packages/Newtonsoft.Json/) and chasing down all of the version conflicts for the next several days.

gagege 12y ago
Android and iOS development in VS will be done via Xamarin, Cordova, or C++. That's why you don't see Maven or Gradle support anywhere, there's no Java involved.
- LoneWolf 12y ago
  So no native android development? Or am I wrong thinking these options are not native.
  - bratsche 12y ago
    It depends on your definition of native. Xamarin lets you use all the native Android APIs, but you're using them via bindings in C# or F# instead of Java.
  - gagege 12y ago
    The C++ and Xamarin stuff is native. Take a look at Xamarin.Forms. It looks very nice.
  - on_and_off 12y ago
    Yes and no. Xamarin does some binding to the native APIs but you are going to code in C#. Even if it is your favorite language in the world, I don't think that Xamarin is a good platform to develop non-trivial apps. If you need to develop something relatively simple on multiple platforms, Xamarin is a good way to do it once on iOS & Android.

untog 12y ago

This looks fantastic - Google's emulator offering has always been so poor that I turned to Genymotion. The only shame is that we won't see the same for iOS, given that the simulator requires OS X.

felixrieseberg 12y ago

This is a great time to reiterate that startups receive Microsoft's software for free, obviously including all versions of Visual Studio. Check out BizSpark.com or get in touch with me if you happen to be a YC company (felix.rieseberg@microsoft.com).

pzxc 12y ago
You mean they receive Microsoft's software for free for 3 years, after which they get a discounted price for 2 years as an "alumni", after which they have to pay full price now they are fully on your stack and have large switching costs. I'm not buying that Trojan horse.
- atwebb 12y ago
  Isn't that information made clear up front so that a company can make an informed decision? Maybe it'd be an apt comparison if the Trojan's put a big sign on the front saying: "Acceptance of this horse constitutes acceptance of a (up till now) secret invasion"
- peripitea 12y ago
  If you're starting a business, "what will our operating costs be in 3-5 years?" is just about the last thing you should be worried about. In fact, I'd guess that most new business owners would love to end up facing that problem. I certainly would. Plus, it's not like they gouge you after 5 years; Microsoft has a strong incentive to keep its products/services competitively priced. I'm far from a Microsoft fan, but I fail to see how BizSpark is anything but a huge boon to the startup/small business community.
  - rbanffy 12y ago
    > I fail to see how BizSpark is anything but a huge boon to the startup/small business community. For starters, it encourages a bad habit: using the Microsoft stack and deploying on Windows. Unless you are significantly more productive by using this toolset, I'd advise against it. Having said that, most startups fail, so, chances are using Windows will not be a problem 3-5 years down the road.

kozikow 12y ago

How does it compare to Genymotion? It would be much more interesting comparison than stock emulator.

bratsche 12y ago
One difference is that it probably doesn't include adware/malware.
- y2bd 12y ago
  I hadn't heard of Genymotion having adware/malware previously. Would you mind linking a source?

cek 12y ago

When we built the WP7 emulator (not really an emulator because that implies cpu emulation) we chose to make it x86 based, using virtual machine tech. We could do this and get great performance because all 3rd party apps used managed CLR code and thus were processor independent. Later the WP8 emulator was actually fully based on Hyper-v and this is too...meaning it is "just" a vm running x86 android, which explains why it's so fast.

ja27 12y ago
The Hyper-V requirement is kind of a pain - or rather, the requirements to run Hyper-V are a pain. On non-server versions of Windows, it's only available on Windows 8+ Pro / Enterprise. So anyone with Windows 7 or non-Pro Windows 8 can't run it. I've been to a few Windows Phone developer camps and this is always an issue for attendees.

wasyl 12y ago

Does anyone know what kind of development for Android does VS offer? I guess it's not java, and I'm not familiar with options

Aldo_MX 12y ago
From the article: With Visual Studio 2015 Preview you can target Android and edit-compile-debug regardless of your choice of programming models: JavaScript (or TypeScript) with Cordova, C++, or C# with Xamarin.
- wasyl 12y ago
  Thanks! I must've missed it
- gcb0 12y ago
  any famous apps done with cordova?
  - Aldo_MX 12y ago
    http://phonegap.com/app/feature/ http://phonegap.com/app/feature/
  - AdamTReineke 12y ago
    Wikipedia's app used to be. Not sure if that's the app they still run across all the platforms though. https://github.com/wikimedia/WikipediaMobile https://github.com/wikimedia/WikipediaMobile
- Avalaxy 12y ago
  I wonder how much effort it would be to support C# as well, without Xamarin. Would they ever do that? Or would they prefer to not hurt Xamarin (or maybe Google/Apple) too much by offering their own C# crossplatform development?
  - greyskull 12y ago

wvenable 12y ago

I've only slightly dabbled in Android development: installing the SDK, IDE, build a "hello world", and run in an emulator. I've done a bit of old-school mobile development (Symbian, WinMobile) and I was very surprised how poor the emulation experience was for Android. It looks like Microsoft might have a better Android emulation workflow than Google. What strange times!

blinkingled 12y ago
>It looks like Microsoft might have a better Android emulation workflow than Google. What strange times! Sure but keep in mind that Google has to produce an emulator that emulates ARM, MIPS and x86 and all of that has to work on Windows, Linux and Mac. Significantly different and tougher challenge!
- bravo22 12y ago
  Android apps are Java based. Google does not need to do what you just said.
  - myko 12y ago
    Android's NDK supports much more than just Java
    - bravo22 12y ago
      True but the vast majority of Android developers don't need to use NDK. Additionally the native part can run as x86 code. It doesn't need to be emulated.
      - eropple 12y ago
        This isn't true, as anybody who sees bugs on the iPhone that don't show up on the Simulator will be happy to tell you. You test on an emulator when you have the option because it's the hardware you're actually deploying against. And, again, Android does not run Java and characterizing it as such is ignorance of the environment involved.

dested 12y ago

This is incredible, perfect for xamarin or phonegag. Cant wait to use it

giancarlostoro 12y ago

This is great, the main thing really keeping me from Android development is the Emulators. I'm going to try this out. I love Visual Studio, never thought I'd get to do Android development on it, I wish Visual Studio for Ubuntu / Mac would come next though, but this is good enough for me!

Dorian-Marie 12y ago

This is a great time to reiterate that startups receive Microsoft's software for free, obviously it's a trap and you should not be hooked to Microsoft technology if you want to iterate quickly.

bigdubs 12y ago
"hooked to Microsoft technology if you want to iterate quickly." Why the hatchet comment? What basis do you have for saying this?

maresca 12y ago

Such amazingly convenient timing. I just picked up my droid app I paused on working on. Definitely going to give this a shot. Thanks for posting! Microsoft is so hot right now!

RachelF 12y ago

Right now it is x86 Android only, not ARM, which is the vast majority of Android devices: "You need to recompile your code for x86. If you have parts of your code that can only be compiled for ARM, or you depend on 3rd-party libraries for which you do not have an x86 version, your code will not run on our emulator at this point."

kpozin 12y ago
I believe those are the same limitations as on the x86 emulator provided by Google/Intel.

kayman 12y ago

Its great news, but I think it will take some time before the developers that grew up thinking of MSoft as a closed shop will slowly change their minds. A few "wow" open source releases will really help shift this mindset.

pjmlp 12y ago

So Microsoft is able to provide a better Android emulator than Google itself. I really wonder who is developing Android at Google, when I look at the emulator, open bugs in the SDK or NDK support. I guess spending resources moving from Eclipse to Android Studio and still not there, after one year is more important.