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Most people don't know what they want to do with their lives at age 18, whether or not they think they do. The strongest argument against college is an unmanag

Most people don't know what they want to do with their lives at age 18, whether or not they think they do. The strongest argument against college is an unmanageable amount of debt, which can haunt you for decades, and I have many friends who suffer from this. The strongest argument for college is the connections you can make which will be with you for life. I know countless people who can trace their career opportunities back to people they met in college, whether or not they even graduated. Both factors can be overcome. You can pay off your debt diligently, or attend a school that is so cheap this is a non-issue. You can make connections other ways. But you will pay a price one way or another. In my opinion those two things are the fundamental factors that determine whether or not going to college is a good idea, and should be the main considerations that help you decide whether or not to go. Every other aspect of this discussion seems like a giant red herring.

VLM 12y ago
"people they met in college" For those of us who went to school, think back on the people you hang out with... did you sit next to them in class or meet them in clubs / parties / internships? The people I met outside classrooms ended up being more important than the people I met inside classrooms. There might be a pretty strong argument for skipping school and doing a 4-year internship, getting a job, or simply living in an apartment in the student area of a big school. I'm claiming that unless the school is in a horrifically high crime area, nobody checks for school IDs at the LISP club meeting or the guest speaker lecture or the frat party or the language conference or the local 2600 meeting or classroom lectures. When I moved to a new area for work I checked out the local schools, couldn't get a tour to fit my schedule, crashed a history lecture, just walked in one day and sat down, pretty awesome experience, so I signed up. This might sound too extroverted for some people but I assure you it was less terrifying than public speaking. Also there's go to school full time vs my strategy of Saturday morning part time. I met just as many people, if not more, and taking one class at a time is pretty cheap compared to going "all in". Or you can audit either for free or nearly free.
- 1337biz 12y ago
  You are right about that, but you also have to make a conscious decision to become more extroverted. This is a subject that takes effort and is really hard for some people. When I was at that age wasn't even aware what I was missing out. College just pushed me into an environment without me having to put much effort into becoming more social.
genwin 12y ago
For some, there's a stronger argument against college: you mentally can't abide being taught. Those people need to learn on their own, and for software development there's little reason they shouldn't.
- atomicUpdate 12y ago
  > you mentally can't abide being taught Frankly, this sounds a bit ridiculous...how can someone that can't be taught be employable? Using software development as an example, they need to be able to be taught things, such as why overall design decisions were made, how a particular algorithm works, coding conventions, development processes, etc. These are not "pick them up at your own pace" kinds of things, and may not even have easily accessible documentation available to do so with in the first place.
  - genwin 12y ago
    Work teaching is generally efficient. If you're told anything at all, that is; more often you have to ask if you can't figure it out yourself. You can say "I got it, I'll take it from here" and people are happy to hear it. School teaching is generally the opposite. My bosses always want me to figure out how the algorithm works, while fixing it!

VLM 12y ago

"people they met in college" For those of us who went to school, think back on the people you hang out with... did you sit next to them in class or meet them in clubs / parties / internships? The people I met outside classrooms ended up being more important than the people I met inside classrooms. There might be a pretty strong argument for skipping school and doing a 4-year internship, getting a job, or simply living in an apartment in the student area of a big school. I'm claiming that unless the school is in a horrifically high crime area, nobody checks for school IDs at the LISP club meeting or the guest speaker lecture or the frat party or the language conference or the local 2600 meeting or classroom lectures. When I moved to a new area for work I checked out the local schools, couldn't get a tour to fit my schedule, crashed a history lecture, just walked in one day and sat down, pretty awesome experience, so I signed up. This might sound too extroverted for some people but I assure you it was less terrifying than public speaking. Also there's go to school full time vs my strategy of Saturday morning part time. I met just as many people, if not more, and taking one class at a time is pretty cheap compared to going "all in". Or you can audit either for free or nearly free.

1337biz 12y ago
You are right about that, but you also have to make a conscious decision to become more extroverted. This is a subject that takes effort and is really hard for some people. When I was at that age wasn't even aware what I was missing out. College just pushed me into an environment without me having to put much effort into becoming more social.

genwin 12y ago

For some, there's a stronger argument against college: you mentally can't abide being taught. Those people need to learn on their own, and for software development there's little reason they shouldn't.

atomicUpdate 12y ago
> you mentally can't abide being taught Frankly, this sounds a bit ridiculous...how can someone that can't be taught be employable? Using software development as an example, they need to be able to be taught things, such as why overall design decisions were made, how a particular algorithm works, coding conventions, development processes, etc. These are not "pick them up at your own pace" kinds of things, and may not even have easily accessible documentation available to do so with in the first place.
- genwin 12y ago
  Work teaching is generally efficient. If you're told anything at all, that is; more often you have to ask if you can't figure it out yourself. You can say "I got it, I'll take it from here" and people are happy to hear it. School teaching is generally the opposite. My bosses always want me to figure out how the algorithm works, while fixing it!