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It's so weird to think people live in London. That they get up in the morning and look around and think 'this is my home'... London (and New York) are almost as

It's so weird to think people live in London. That they get up in the morning and look around and think 'this is my home'... London (and New York) are almost as real as Hobbiton in my mind. You must wake up and see people, walk out the door and see people, walk and walk and walk and see people everywhere you go. Do they all just blend into the background? How do you live with so many lives intersecting with yours? Some days I go to <location> and it is busy with people. Having fun, dogs barking, kids shouting. So I think, "You know what, I'll come back later. When there's no one here."

fredley 12y ago
You're right, they do blend into the background somewhat. I can't imagine what it was like before modern devices though. When I get on the bus, usually no matter how crowded it is I can just about manage to squeeze open my phone/kindle with one hand while hanging on to something with the other, allowing me reasonably good escapism from the horror of the situation. In the 1930's London was more populated than it is now, and there were no devices. It was probably a lot smellier, louder and grimier too. I can't imagine coping in that city.
bollix 12y ago
I lived in London for a year. It was the most lonely isolated place I've lived. Also it's not really part of the UK anymore. It's a "world" city - which makes the feeling of loneliness even worse.
- muyuu 12y ago
  Yeah well, that's pretty much all big cities when you arrive on your own, especially after student age. It's also very expensive to move around, and at this it's one of the worst places.
  - Symbiote 12y ago
    London is cheaper to move around by public transport than many other British cities. A bus or tram journey is £1.45 regardless of distance, but in Manchester a tram journey is over £3, in Birmingham over £2, in Edinburgh £1.50. London's tickets are also much better integrated -- only a couple of express train services to airports have special fares, and they all have non-express, cheaper alternatives.
    - Kurtz79 12y ago
      If you don't particularly care WHEN you are getting to destination, it's reasonably cheap. A bus is a terribly ineffective way to move around London, especially for commuting to/from the center. A single fare tube ride is 2.20 in Zone 1, escalating quickly with distance.
    - muyuu 12y ago
      There may be worse places in the UK, I honestly haven't compared that much with medium-sized cities like Manchester or Birmingham. Among international big capitals (which is what you can really compare London to) it has to be the worst. The fact that going to other cities in the UK is prohibitive makes it even worse (it's cheaper to fly to many places in Europe than going to most other UK cities by any means of transportation). If you want to move medium distances within London in reasonable time, it's tube/Overground/DLR and it's prohibitive. Using the Oyster card it's better but still rubbish really. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/04/most_expensive_train_trip/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/04/most_expensive_train...
      - Symbiote 12y ago
        The example is stupid and sensationalist, those stations are the two closest at 260 metres apart, or about two train lengths. Like many European cities, paying by cash is being phased out. It's annoying for visitors, but London is ahead here: Oyster cards are refundable, let the user go overdrawn (into the deposit), and contactless credit/debit cards are accepted. The actual Zone 1 fare is £2.20. A central zone Berlin ticket is €2.60. Copenhagen ~£2.60. Munich €2.60.
- philh 12y ago
  Thanks to reddit, I've had the exact opposite experience - but if it weren't for that, I suspect I would feel the same.
clearly 12y ago
Ha yes we all just avoid eye contact with each other! More seriously though, I actually find I interact with a less diverse range of people here than when I lived in more provincial towns, because you can always find very specific groups of people (ie developer events, climbers, guitarists who are into blues etc) rather than settling for more generic groups.
kitd 12y ago
I read somewhere that the average city dweller encounters more people in a week than the average medieval person did in their entire life. I wonder to what extent human psychology is prepared to cope with such relationship overload after 10s of millenia in small communities.
- vidarh 12y ago
  Try to get eye contact in London, and you see how human psychology is coping. It is quite fascinating to get on trains out of London. With each stop out, the atmosphere loosens up, and the chance of someone talking to you (!) or giving eye contact increases.
  - dashboardfront 12y ago
    I've always heard London to be unfriendly, but when I visited and asked multiple people for directions they were pretty damn accommodating. Maybe I just got lucky, but in the city I previously lived in (Copenhagen) you felt like you were intruding on somebody's day whenever you interrupted them in public.
    - Symbiote 12y ago
      I will always help with directions if I can, as I think most people in London would. When I used to lock my bicycle outside I'd get asked about twice a month — someone locking a bicycle is probably local. What I don't want is irrelevant conversation. I've spent the day at work, the train home is a chance for a break and a rest.
vidarh 12y ago
I live in one of the largest London boroughs, and I can often walk 10-15 minutes towards the train station - one of the busiest in London - and not see people, even though I leave the house around 8am. London isn't all that dense, and the density is fairly unevenly distributed. There are forest areas within the boundaries of the city. There's a lake near my house - in the middle of suburbia, where people go fishing. I'm 10 minutes on a tram away from farms. When I lived at Marble Arch and worked in Holborn (find "Oxford Street" on a London map - one of the busiest shopping streets in the world - and they're pretty much opposite ends) there was people everywhere most of the time, but even then finding quiet spots in the nearby parks, or by walking the back streets, was never hard.
- Kurtz79 12y ago
  I lived in Golders Green (Zone 3), and going to/from the tube station I always encountered few people. Since most of the sidelane was made up of single-family houses, it´s not so surprising. Also, I had the ginormous Hampsted Heath park at a 10 minutes walk, parts of which are quite empty all day long. Unlike many European cities, where the vast majority of buildings are medium/high rise apartments, many boroughs of London have parts more similar to American suburbs. I certainly miss having a backyard.
bbx 12y ago
I've lived in London for 1 year, and Paris for 4 years (density: 55,000 people/mi², almost like Manhattan). You don't actually interact with others. You just cross their paths. And most of them are strangers you'll never encounter again. Or if you do, you won't notice it. I guess I've become accustomed to the fact of being constantly surrounded, at almost any time of the day or night, although this feeling of permanent busyness is not exactly tangible. As long as you remain aware of the fallacy of these interactions and don't expect anything from them, you're fine.
muyuu 12y ago
I never felt like that anywhere and I'm from a small town. My home was really my family and my closest friends. Once these scattered away there was no particular place I'd call home. And about the last part of your message, actually most places in London are deserted rather soon in the afternoon. It's just a few selected places that are always busy. Honestly there's a lot to this place, but yeah it's a rather stereotypical big city.
fit2rule 12y ago
Its no different than on the Internet, which is also another "International City". We're all just passive props in an objective play, of which there is only one viewer, in our case .. the reader.
irremediable 12y ago
You get used to it to some extent. Especially in situations like the Tube or busy streets. I spend most of my time in the office/lab, which are far less busy, and go a long way towards alleviating any feelings of suffocation.

fredley 12y ago

You're right, they do blend into the background somewhat. I can't imagine what it was like before modern devices though. When I get on the bus, usually no matter how crowded it is I can just about manage to squeeze open my phone/kindle with one hand while hanging on to something with the other, allowing me reasonably good escapism from the horror of the situation. In the 1930's London was more populated than it is now, and there were no devices. It was probably a lot smellier, louder and grimier too. I can't imagine coping in that city.

bollix 12y ago

I lived in London for a year. It was the most lonely isolated place I've lived. Also it's not really part of the UK anymore. It's a "world" city - which makes the feeling of loneliness even worse.

muyuu 12y ago
Yeah well, that's pretty much all big cities when you arrive on your own, especially after student age. It's also very expensive to move around, and at this it's one of the worst places.
- Symbiote 12y ago
  London is cheaper to move around by public transport than many other British cities. A bus or tram journey is £1.45 regardless of distance, but in Manchester a tram journey is over £3, in Birmingham over £2, in Edinburgh £1.50. London's tickets are also much better integrated -- only a couple of express train services to airports have special fares, and they all have non-express, cheaper alternatives.
  - Kurtz79 12y ago
    If you don't particularly care WHEN you are getting to destination, it's reasonably cheap. A bus is a terribly ineffective way to move around London, especially for commuting to/from the center. A single fare tube ride is 2.20 in Zone 1, escalating quickly with distance.
  - muyuu 12y ago
    There may be worse places in the UK, I honestly haven't compared that much with medium-sized cities like Manchester or Birmingham. Among international big capitals (which is what you can really compare London to) it has to be the worst. The fact that going to other cities in the UK is prohibitive makes it even worse (it's cheaper to fly to many places in Europe than going to most other UK cities by any means of transportation). If you want to move medium distances within London in reasonable time, it's tube/Overground/DLR and it's prohibitive. Using the Oyster card it's better but still rubbish really. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/04/most_expensive_train_trip/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/04/most_expensive_train...
    - Symbiote 12y ago
      The example is stupid and sensationalist, those stations are the two closest at 260 metres apart, or about two train lengths. Like many European cities, paying by cash is being phased out. It's annoying for visitors, but London is ahead here: Oyster cards are refundable, let the user go overdrawn (into the deposit), and contactless credit/debit cards are accepted. The actual Zone 1 fare is £2.20. A central zone Berlin ticket is €2.60. Copenhagen ~£2.60. Munich €2.60.
philh 12y ago
Thanks to reddit, I've had the exact opposite experience - but if it weren't for that, I suspect I would feel the same.

clearly 12y ago

Ha yes we all just avoid eye contact with each other! More seriously though, I actually find I interact with a less diverse range of people here than when I lived in more provincial towns, because you can always find very specific groups of people (ie developer events, climbers, guitarists who are into blues etc) rather than settling for more generic groups.

kitd 12y ago

I read somewhere that the average city dweller encounters more people in a week than the average medieval person did in their entire life. I wonder to what extent human psychology is prepared to cope with such relationship overload after 10s of millenia in small communities.

vidarh 12y ago
Try to get eye contact in London, and you see how human psychology is coping. It is quite fascinating to get on trains out of London. With each stop out, the atmosphere loosens up, and the chance of someone talking to you (!) or giving eye contact increases.
- dashboardfront 12y ago
  I've always heard London to be unfriendly, but when I visited and asked multiple people for directions they were pretty damn accommodating. Maybe I just got lucky, but in the city I previously lived in (Copenhagen) you felt like you were intruding on somebody's day whenever you interrupted them in public.
  - Symbiote 12y ago
    I will always help with directions if I can, as I think most people in London would. When I used to lock my bicycle outside I'd get asked about twice a month — someone locking a bicycle is probably local. What I don't want is irrelevant conversation. I've spent the day at work, the train home is a chance for a break and a rest.

vidarh 12y ago

I live in one of the largest London boroughs, and I can often walk 10-15 minutes towards the train station - one of the busiest in London - and not see people, even though I leave the house around 8am. London isn't all that dense, and the density is fairly unevenly distributed. There are forest areas within the boundaries of the city. There's a lake near my house - in the middle of suburbia, where people go fishing. I'm 10 minutes on a tram away from farms. When I lived at Marble Arch and worked in Holborn (find "Oxford Street" on a London map - one of the busiest shopping streets in the world - and they're pretty much opposite ends) there was people everywhere most of the time, but even then finding quiet spots in the nearby parks, or by walking the back streets, was never hard.

Kurtz79 12y ago
I lived in Golders Green (Zone 3), and going to/from the tube station I always encountered few people. Since most of the sidelane was made up of single-family houses, it´s not so surprising. Also, I had the ginormous Hampsted Heath park at a 10 minutes walk, parts of which are quite empty all day long. Unlike many European cities, where the vast majority of buildings are medium/high rise apartments, many boroughs of London have parts more similar to American suburbs. I certainly miss having a backyard.

bbx 12y ago

I've lived in London for 1 year, and Paris for 4 years (density: 55,000 people/mi², almost like Manhattan). You don't actually interact with others. You just cross their paths. And most of them are strangers you'll never encounter again. Or if you do, you won't notice it. I guess I've become accustomed to the fact of being constantly surrounded, at almost any time of the day or night, although this feeling of permanent busyness is not exactly tangible. As long as you remain aware of the fallacy of these interactions and don't expect anything from them, you're fine.

muyuu 12y ago

I never felt like that anywhere and I'm from a small town. My home was really my family and my closest friends. Once these scattered away there was no particular place I'd call home. And about the last part of your message, actually most places in London are deserted rather soon in the afternoon. It's just a few selected places that are always busy. Honestly there's a lot to this place, but yeah it's a rather stereotypical big city.

fit2rule 12y ago

Its no different than on the Internet, which is also another "International City". We're all just passive props in an objective play, of which there is only one viewer, in our case .. the reader.

irremediable 12y ago

You get used to it to some extent. Especially in situations like the Tube or busy streets. I spend most of my time in the office/lab, which are far less busy, and go a long way towards alleviating any feelings of suffocation.