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You are being downvoted because people disagree. I'm not sure how I feel about the downvote button being used this way, but I also disagree with you. I wish t

by jMyles 12y ago

You are being downvoted because people disagree. I'm not sure how I feel about the downvote button being used this way, but I also disagree with you. I wish that instead of downvoting, people will just explain their positions. For my part: Personally owned firearms are used for defense far more often than for aggression. The easiest scenario to picture is the one in which a sidearm is merely revealed (rather than brandished or fired) in order to deter an attacker. The vast majority of successful uses of guns for personal protection do not involve discharge. I think it's reasonable to call these purely "defensive" uses. I agree that, on its face, discharging a firearm with the intent to kill or injure another person is offensive. However, this is an over-simplification of the (largely positive, in my experience) role that firearms play in our society. A sufficient distribution of concealed carry permits creates (or at least can create) a sort of herd immunity against certain types of violent crime. Volunteer open carry provides an example of how protective force might be delegated in a community without the need for a police force. A culture of firearms safety and training, along with widespread ownership of effective tactical arms, can cause an entity, even a state actor, to opt against brute-force repression of a community. If you want a crash course in firearm culture amidst unending dedication to peace and compassion, check out Porcupine Festival. (And for what it's worth, there are also very intense tech talks and hacking sessions that will blow your mind).

mtbcoder 12y ago
Interesting points, do you have any sources though?
- jMyles 12y ago
  I don't, at least at the moment. Of the empirical claims I've made, I'm most interested in whether self-defense encounters that merely involve a "reveal" are typically effective and what their distribution is. I didn't mean, though, to be empirical for the most part; I was just trying to jog the imagination about what "purely defensive" uses of firearms might look like.
01Michael10 12y ago
Well, I would have to disagree with just about everything you wrote... >The easiest scenario to picture is the one in which a sidearm is merely revealed (rather than brandished or fired) in order to deter an attacker. Huh? Where do you live where this scenario ever happens? I am 45 and lived in a major city half my life and not really in the best part of town. I have never had the need to reveal a weapon to a would be attacker. If someone is going to mug me their weapon will be already pointed at me and revealing any weapon I have is just going to get me shot. I think maybe you watch to much TV... >A sufficient distribution of concealed carry permits creates (or at least can create) a sort of herd immunity against certain types of violent crime. Source? I just looked at murder rates for NY (where I live) with a low concealed carry permits ratio to Texas which has a high concealed carry permits. Gee, Texas has a higher murder rate... >Volunteer open carry provides an example of how protective force might be delegated in a community without the need for a police force. Ok, I am not a huge fan of police forces but I am also not a huge fan of more random people walking around with guns. The majority of people are to violent, mentally unstable, to just plain to dumb to be carrying weapons around. We already try the wild west thing and it didn't work out...
- jMyles 12y ago
  > I have never had the need to reveal a weapon to a would be attacker. If someone is going to mug me their weapon will be already pointed at me and revealing any weapon I have is just going to get me shot. I don't speak from personal experience; I've never owned a firearm. However, a number of my friends have had this experience. One possibility is that this is more important for women? A women, being threatened by an unarmed man, can change the complexion of the power balance by revealing a weapon. I don't have a good source for this; it's very possible that I'm wrong. Even if it rarely happens, it's still an easy way to picture the 'purely' defensive capacity of a sidearm.
  - 01Michael10 12y ago
    I have no idea what you are talking about "revealing" a weapon or why you would do that... If someone was flashing a gun in a public setting I would be calling the police. Oh wait, let me guess your friends get nervous when a "black" person walks near them so they have to "reveal" they are armed. Funny, this was just in the news the other day... A man purchased a new gun and was flashing it. You guessed it, he was mugged at gun point by someone who wanted to upgrade his piece.

by jMyles 12y ago

mtbcoder 12y ago

Interesting points, do you have any sources though?

jMyles 12y ago
I don't, at least at the moment. Of the empirical claims I've made, I'm most interested in whether self-defense encounters that merely involve a "reveal" are typically effective and what their distribution is. I didn't mean, though, to be empirical for the most part; I was just trying to jog the imagination about what "purely defensive" uses of firearms might look like.

01Michael10 12y ago

Well, I would have to disagree with just about everything you wrote... >The easiest scenario to picture is the one in which a sidearm is merely revealed (rather than brandished or fired) in order to deter an attacker. Huh? Where do you live where this scenario ever happens? I am 45 and lived in a major city half my life and not really in the best part of town. I have never had the need to reveal a weapon to a would be attacker. If someone is going to mug me their weapon will be already pointed at me and revealing any weapon I have is just going to get me shot. I think maybe you watch to much TV... >A sufficient distribution of concealed carry permits creates (or at least can create) a sort of herd immunity against certain types of violent crime. Source? I just looked at murder rates for NY (where I live) with a low concealed carry permits ratio to Texas which has a high concealed carry permits. Gee, Texas has a higher murder rate... >Volunteer open carry provides an example of how protective force might be delegated in a community without the need for a police force. Ok, I am not a huge fan of police forces but I am also not a huge fan of more random people walking around with guns. The majority of people are to violent, mentally unstable, to just plain to dumb to be carrying weapons around. We already try the wild west thing and it didn't work out...

jMyles 12y ago
> I have never had the need to reveal a weapon to a would be attacker. If someone is going to mug me their weapon will be already pointed at me and revealing any weapon I have is just going to get me shot. I don't speak from personal experience; I've never owned a firearm. However, a number of my friends have had this experience. One possibility is that this is more important for women? A women, being threatened by an unarmed man, can change the complexion of the power balance by revealing a weapon. I don't have a good source for this; it's very possible that I'm wrong. Even if it rarely happens, it's still an easy way to picture the 'purely' defensive capacity of a sidearm.
- 01Michael10 12y ago
  I have no idea what you are talking about "revealing" a weapon or why you would do that... If someone was flashing a gun in a public setting I would be calling the police. Oh wait, let me guess your friends get nervous when a "black" person walks near them so they have to "reveal" they are armed. Funny, this was just in the news the other day... A man purchased a new gun and was flashing it. You guessed it, he was mugged at gun point by someone who wanted to upgrade his piece.