9 ms·

You make good, valid points. My perspective is that as a student, I don't stand out. My grades/ECs/etc are not very exceptional. However, as a "rogue" (for lac

You make good, valid points. My perspective is that as a student, I don't stand out. My grades/ECs/etc are not very exceptional. However, as a "rogue" (for lack of a better term) developer, I do stand out. I started making websites in 4th grade, I've worked professionally as a developer since a year after I was legally able to have a job at all, I have an entrepreneurial spirit, I have a history of shipping software, etc. Read that in the least egotistical tone you can (if at all possible) please; I'm walking imposter syndrome in reality. I'd really like to continue this conversation right now but I think it'll stretch out too long, can we pick back up at this point in person? I'll email you right after I post this. >I apologize for coming across as negative I also struggle with wording what I say to sound positive, but you have nothing to worry about, your tone has been very neutral. EDIT: I sent an email to the address in your profile, if that's not your current email, please tell me so I can send it to the right one.

jbooth 12y ago
If you're better as a rogue than as a student, that's like 10x the time to work on being a student. The real world? It sucks, and brilliant rogues are frequently punished shortly after saving the day. You've got 40-50 years after school to learn those lessons. Go to school for the experience while you're young enough to do it. Learn some philosophy, history, art or music while you're at it.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
eslaught 12y ago
> My perspective is that as a student, I don't stand out. My grades/ECs/etc are not very exceptional. I was such a student in high school; ok grades, but nothing that would get me into Stanford (I applied; they rejected me). Then I went to college (at UCSD), and suddenly the entire world turned around. In high school, being good meant mostly skills that had nothing to do with subject matter. In college, being good meant being good at CS, which (hey!) I was actually good at. So almost overnight, I became one of the top students in my cohort, and one of the most well-known in my year in the department. I am now a Ph.D. student at Stanford (yes, the irony...). Admittedly, I never followed the path from high school straight to working, so I wouldn't know if something similar is possible there, and maybe it is. But I wouldn't underestimate the social network effects that others have talked about here. Standing out in your major has substantially more impact in college than it does in high school.
grayclhn 12y ago
I want to be clear up front that this isn't really a comment for you, but a more general comment for any students reading it. FWIW, I teach at a university, but this is just my own opinion and others might disagree. > My perspective is that as a student, I don't stand out. My grades/ECs/etc are not very exceptional. However, as a "rogue" (for lack of a better term) developer, I do stand out. It is easy to stand out as a student: attend lecture every day, show up early and sit in the front row, prepare for the lectures by reading the assigned and optional readings in advance, ask questions that help you deepen your understanding of the material (not questions that are designed to "show off," if your understanding of the material is much deeper than what the class covers, don't be an asshole, but do ask questions before and after lecture), and use the resources the class has made available to you to understand the subject as well as you can. I've had students "stand out" despite getting Cs on all the tests, because they've clearly busted their ass to get a C and had a good attitude about it. I've also had completely anonymous students get As. If you work hard at the class and are also any good at the subject, you'll stand out even more. And, just in case you need this advice later (this is actually for you, Miles), you can actually pull this off without being enrolled at the university and can probably hustle/charm your way into enrollment at Berkeley if you ever decide you need it. The same thing applies: take classes you're interested in (through UC's extension education program), show up, work hard, and engage with the Prof. Undergrad enrollment numbers can make that tricky, but that's literally how I got into grad school. (UC extension program and all...) But Berkeley's great. Have fun!
- joshAg 12y ago
  Can Confirm that it is insanely easy to hustle your way into berkeley. I had a friend or two do while I was there. In the meantime, there's no need to not follow along, and there's no need for enrollment through extension (and with no added work for the teaching staff). the intro websites archives are at: 1) http://inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/~cs61a/archives http://inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/~cs61a/archives 2) http://inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/~cs61b/archives http://inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/~cs61b/archives 3) http://inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/~cs61c/archives http://inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/~cs61c/archives the current semester is at http://inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/~cs61a/ http://inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/~cs61a/ and so on. If you click through you should notice that all the readings and lecture notes and assignments are totally publicly viewable. the only thing standing between you and doing that whole class on your own (minus, the final) is your will power. At least one semester of the courses are at webcast.berkeley.edu or on youtube. Again, totally public. If you really want to, you can even attend lecture since berkeley is an open campus and no one will check to see what you're doing there. Be warned, though, the classes are really impacted right now, so you might not even get a seat. The only downside to doing it this way is that you don't get official credit. If you really want that, you could take it via extension, but I highly doubt they'll let you in since even declared majors are having all sorts of trouble signing up for classes (the intro series went from like 300 students to >1200 per semester in like 2 years, so they are having some growth issues :).

jbooth 12y ago

If you're better as a rogue than as a student, that's like 10x the time to work on being a student. The real world? It sucks, and brilliant rogues are frequently punished shortly after saving the day. You've got 40-50 years after school to learn those lessons. Go to school for the experience while you're young enough to do it. Learn some philosophy, history, art or music while you're at it.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

eslaught 12y ago

> My perspective is that as a student, I don't stand out. My grades/ECs/etc are not very exceptional. I was such a student in high school; ok grades, but nothing that would get me into Stanford (I applied; they rejected me). Then I went to college (at UCSD), and suddenly the entire world turned around. In high school, being good meant mostly skills that had nothing to do with subject matter. In college, being good meant being good at CS, which (hey!) I was actually good at. So almost overnight, I became one of the top students in my cohort, and one of the most well-known in my year in the department. I am now a Ph.D. student at Stanford (yes, the irony...). Admittedly, I never followed the path from high school straight to working, so I wouldn't know if something similar is possible there, and maybe it is. But I wouldn't underestimate the social network effects that others have talked about here. Standing out in your major has substantially more impact in college than it does in high school.

grayclhn 12y ago

I want to be clear up front that this isn't really a comment for you, but a more general comment for any students reading it. FWIW, I teach at a university, but this is just my own opinion and others might disagree. > My perspective is that as a student, I don't stand out. My grades/ECs/etc are not very exceptional. However, as a "rogue" (for lack of a better term) developer, I do stand out. It is easy to stand out as a student: attend lecture every day, show up early and sit in the front row, prepare for the lectures by reading the assigned and optional readings in advance, ask questions that help you deepen your understanding of the material (not questions that are designed to "show off," if your understanding of the material is much deeper than what the class covers, don't be an asshole, but do ask questions before and after lecture), and use the resources the class has made available to you to understand the subject as well as you can. I've had students "stand out" despite getting Cs on all the tests, because they've clearly busted their ass to get a C and had a good attitude about it. I've also had completely anonymous students get As. If you work hard at the class and are also any good at the subject, you'll stand out even more. And, just in case you need this advice later (this is actually for you, Miles), you can actually pull this off without being enrolled at the university and can probably hustle/charm your way into enrollment at Berkeley if you ever decide you need it. The same thing applies: take classes you're interested in (through UC's extension education program), show up, work hard, and engage with the Prof. Undergrad enrollment numbers can make that tricky, but that's literally how I got into grad school. (UC extension program and all...) But Berkeley's great. Have fun!

joshAg 12y ago
Can Confirm that it is insanely easy to hustle your way into berkeley. I had a friend or two do while I was there. In the meantime, there's no need to not follow along, and there's no need for enrollment through extension (and with no added work for the teaching staff). the intro websites archives are at: 1) http://inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/~cs61a/archives http://inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/~cs61a/archives 2) http://inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/~cs61b/archives http://inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/~cs61b/archives 3) http://inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/~cs61c/archives http://inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/~cs61c/archives the current semester is at http://inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/~cs61a/ http://inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/~cs61a/ and so on. If you click through you should notice that all the readings and lecture notes and assignments are totally publicly viewable. the only thing standing between you and doing that whole class on your own (minus, the final) is your will power. At least one semester of the courses are at webcast.berkeley.edu or on youtube. Again, totally public. If you really want to, you can even attend lecture since berkeley is an open campus and no one will check to see what you're doing there. Be warned, though, the classes are really impacted right now, so you might not even get a seat. The only downside to doing it this way is that you don't get official credit. If you really want that, you could take it via extension, but I highly doubt they'll let you in since even declared majors are having all sorts of trouble signing up for classes (the intro series went from like 300 students to >1200 per semester in like 2 years, so they are having some growth issues :).