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>There is no evil cabal of men trying to keep us out. The vast majority of men in the CS world are falling all over themselves trying to cater to women. I'm no
by jolux 12y ago
>There is no evil cabal of men trying to keep us out. The vast majority of men in the CS world are falling all over themselves trying to cater to women.
I'm not saying there's an evil cabal. To the contrary, nearly all of sexism is subconscious. There are a few people that consciously hate women. We call these people misogynists. Most people are sexist. Most people are not, however, misogynists. And falling over themselves trying to cater to women? Why is it, then, that when Jeff Atwood posted his "What Men Can Do" article, and was called out by feminists for mansplaining, (and Mr. Atwood himself was very deliberately sexist in the comments to boot) that the feminists were viciously attacked by a sea of technically oriented white men?
>What are you basing that on?
Why do you think there are fewer women in STEM fields to begin with? Because they genuinely aren't capable? No, it's because from a very early age most people who are born female are forced into the female gender role. Males are forced into the typical male gender role. And yes, the female gender role includes low self esteem and male dependance.
>As long as we refuse to acknowledge reality, that will never happen. We have more power in society than men. We elect the government, we set the agenda, the laws are catered to us. Men still haven't even escaped from basic gender norms.
So you make the claim that women have more power in society than men, but go on to claim that you singlehandedly elect the government, set the agenda, AND cater the laws to yourself? Then why exactly is the country in the process of taking a very anti-feminist approach to reproductive rights? Why is government so male dominated? Why are so many fields dominated by one gender, be it male or female? Putting aside the fact that you don't quite understand what gender roles/norms are, is it not concerning to you that government is an extremely male dominated field and yet you believe you're in power?
You also seem to imply that I identify as female. I do not.
- imanaccount247 12y ago>Most people are sexist And you are basing that on what? >Why is it, then, that when Jeff Atwood posted his "What Men Can Do" article, and was called out by feminists for mansplaining, (and Mr. Atwood himself was very deliberately sexist in the comments to boot) that the feminists were viciously attacked by a sea of technically oriented white men? What an absurdly loaded question. Because feminists were attacking an ally over nothing. "Mansplaining" is not a thing, it is a term made up specifically by sexists to dismiss people they do not wish to be heard. >Why do you think there are fewer women in STEM fields to begin with? Because most women do not wish to be in STEM fields. >No, it's because from a very early age most people who are born female are forced into the female gender role Again, what are you basing that on? All scientific evidence suggests that gender roles are deeply rooted in our genes. There is absolutely no evidence to support the widely discredited nurture only hypothesis. >And yes, the female gender role includes low self esteem and male dependance. No it does not. >Then why exactly is the country in the process of taking a very anti-feminist approach to reproductive rights? It isn't. And why do you conflate "anti-feminist" with anti woman? Most women are not feminists, and do not support feminism. >Why is government so male dominated? Because few women wish to be in government. Notice how often we get elected when we run? >Putting aside the fact that you don't quite understand what gender roles/norms are, is it not concerning to you that government is an extremely male dominated field and yet you believe you're in power? Putting aside your condescending lie, no, why would that concern me? I do not care what sex organs the people I elect posses, I care that they do what we elect them to do. They overwhelmingly introduce, support, and vote for things that women want. Even when they are outright sexist things that women should not be seeking like remedies to the mythological wage gap. >You also seem to imply that I identify as female. I seem to do no such thing.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- dang 12y ago> Putting aside your condescending lie No personal attacks on Hacker News, please, regardless of how provocative someone else may have been. All: Please keep this thread civil and substantive.
- imanaccount247 12y agoIt is not an attack. It is an accurate description of his words.
- jolux 12y agoI'm not a he.
- imanaccount247 12y ago"I'm not a she". "I'm not a he". Guess how much I care?
- tptacek 12y agoEven if it were true, "most women do not wish to be in STEM fields" would beg the question. Why do they not wish to be in STEM fields? One straightforward factor might be the isolation they'd experience in being a tiny minority. The term "feminist" is being tossed around pretty casually, too. That's convenient for both sides of the argument but unfortunate for truth-seeking, since the term can mean whatever the arguer wants it to be. I presume most women do in fact want equal rights, for instance. Most women probably don't want the end of all men. The term "STEM" is also being used haphazardly. Your assertion that "most women do not wish to be in STEM fields" doesn't square with the facts. What would have been more accurate would be to say that most women don't want to work in computer science. But that's a less defensible gap; it's hard to come up with a compelling reason why women would want to be chemists, doctors, or actuaries, but not computer scientists.