5 ms·

No, you wouldn't have to lower your standards. There are plenty of capable women out there. The issue is hiring them and hiring less men as a result, which is w

by jolux 12y ago

No, you wouldn't have to lower your standards. There are plenty of capable women out there. The issue is hiring them and hiring less men as a result, which is what you're not comfortable with doing.

harryh 12y ago
This is wrong. Most tech companies find it difficult or impossible to meet their current hiring needs. There are already slots left empty.
- jolux 12y ago
  Does it not occur to you that they find it difficult because they are subconsciously ignoring worthy female candidates?
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - cheepin 12y ago
    This seems a bit naive. In my time at university, I have never seen a female computer science major have trouble finding opportunities, even if they were miserable coders. The fact that they bring "balance and diversity" to a team apparently is already enough of a qualification for some companies.
  - harryh 12y ago
    That definitely has occurred to me! I would even broaden it to say that I (or my company or my industry) might be subconsciously undervaluing lots of candidates that don't fit the white (or asian) male nerd stereotype. That being said, I think the undersupply of programmers is so severe that even if this subconscious bias was corrected it wouldn't increase the supply of people enough that it would necessitate "hiring less men as a result."
- UrMomReadsHN 12y ago
  "Most tech companies?" That may be true for SF (idk) but it certainly isn't a universal truth everywhere.
kansface 12y ago
You're comment is nonsensical. Women compose 12% of recent CS graduates. Even if all of these women are as good as the top quarter of men, they would still be outnumbered nearly 2 to 1 for a given job. If we wanted to reach equality by your standard, the industry would have to fire men (not fill the slots) while simultaneously hiring every woman in sight.
- jolux 12y ago
  I'm not suggesting that in the least. Hiring more women is easy. Hiring 50% women is EXTREMELY difficult, if not impossible at this point. But that doesn't mean that the solution is to do nothing. The solution is to higher more women and at the same time taking steps to destroy the gender roles that stop them from going into STEM fields and encouraging them to join STEM fields.
- rayiner 12y ago
  Measures like this really have to start at the university level. There is no reason for only 12% of recent CS graduates to be women: http://www.randalolson.com/2014/06/14/percentage-of-bachelors-degrees-conferred-to-women-by-major-1970-2012 http://www.randalolson.com/2014/06/14/percentage-of-bachelor.... Women receive 40-50% of the degrees awarded in the physical sciences, math and statistics, and business, versus less than 20% in computer science and engineering. And the less than 20% in computer science is down from 35% in the 1980's.
  - yummyfajitas 12y ago
    Women receive a lot of biology degrees and math-ed degrees, which make up a disproportionate fraction of science degrees. In the math-heavy science degrees women are underrepresented. There is a very good reason for at least part of this (read the tables not the titles): http://www.ams.org/notices/201201/rtx120100010p.pdf http://www.ams.org/notices/201201/rtx120100010p.pdf http://www.sciencemag.org/content/321/5888/494.summary http://www.sciencemag.org/content/321/5888/494.summary http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21038941 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21038941
girvo 12y ago
Is it really true that there are enough highly-skilled but unemployed women in tech that we can fix this problem by just "hiring more women"? I thought the problem is that there aren't enough highly skilled women at this point in our history, but I could be entirely off-base...
- jackweirdy 12y ago
  Looking at the demographics of my CS degree I'd say it certainly looks like women aren't well represented at UG level.
  - ripb 12y ago
    When I started my UG in CS there were 4 women in class of 110. By the time we finished the degree, there were no women. And yet tech companies are now being told that in order to bring about equality, they must hire the comparatively tiny number of women making it through these courses over similarly qualified men, simply for the sake of doing so.
    - saraid216 12y ago
      How many employed programmers have a CS degree?
      - ripb 12y ago
        Can't find anything cite-able on it unfortunately.

by jolux 12y ago

No, you wouldn't have to lower your standards. There are plenty of capable women out there. The issue is hiring them and hiring less men as a result, which is what you're not comfortable with doing.

harryh 12y ago

This is wrong. Most tech companies find it difficult or impossible to meet their current hiring needs. There are already slots left empty.

jolux 12y ago
Does it not occur to you that they find it difficult because they are subconsciously ignoring worthy female candidates?
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- cheepin 12y ago
  This seems a bit naive. In my time at university, I have never seen a female computer science major have trouble finding opportunities, even if they were miserable coders. The fact that they bring "balance and diversity" to a team apparently is already enough of a qualification for some companies.
- harryh 12y ago
  That definitely has occurred to me! I would even broaden it to say that I (or my company or my industry) might be subconsciously undervaluing lots of candidates that don't fit the white (or asian) male nerd stereotype. That being said, I think the undersupply of programmers is so severe that even if this subconscious bias was corrected it wouldn't increase the supply of people enough that it would necessitate "hiring less men as a result."
UrMomReadsHN 12y ago
"Most tech companies?" That may be true for SF (idk) but it certainly isn't a universal truth everywhere.

kansface 12y ago

You're comment is nonsensical. Women compose 12% of recent CS graduates. Even if all of these women are as good as the top quarter of men, they would still be outnumbered nearly 2 to 1 for a given job. If we wanted to reach equality by your standard, the industry would have to fire men (not fill the slots) while simultaneously hiring every woman in sight.

jolux 12y ago
I'm not suggesting that in the least. Hiring more women is easy. Hiring 50% women is EXTREMELY difficult, if not impossible at this point. But that doesn't mean that the solution is to do nothing. The solution is to higher more women and at the same time taking steps to destroy the gender roles that stop them from going into STEM fields and encouraging them to join STEM fields.
rayiner 12y ago
Measures like this really have to start at the university level. There is no reason for only 12% of recent CS graduates to be women: http://www.randalolson.com/2014/06/14/percentage-of-bachelors-degrees-conferred-to-women-by-major-1970-2012 http://www.randalolson.com/2014/06/14/percentage-of-bachelor.... Women receive 40-50% of the degrees awarded in the physical sciences, math and statistics, and business, versus less than 20% in computer science and engineering. And the less than 20% in computer science is down from 35% in the 1980's.
- yummyfajitas 12y ago
  Women receive a lot of biology degrees and math-ed degrees, which make up a disproportionate fraction of science degrees. In the math-heavy science degrees women are underrepresented. There is a very good reason for at least part of this (read the tables not the titles): http://www.ams.org/notices/201201/rtx120100010p.pdf http://www.ams.org/notices/201201/rtx120100010p.pdf http://www.sciencemag.org/content/321/5888/494.summary http://www.sciencemag.org/content/321/5888/494.summary http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21038941 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21038941

girvo 12y ago

Is it really true that there are enough highly-skilled but unemployed women in tech that we can fix this problem by just "hiring more women"? I thought the problem is that there aren't enough highly skilled women at this point in our history, but I could be entirely off-base...

jackweirdy 12y ago
Looking at the demographics of my CS degree I'd say it certainly looks like women aren't well represented at UG level.
- ripb 12y ago
  When I started my UG in CS there were 4 women in class of 110. By the time we finished the degree, there were no women. And yet tech companies are now being told that in order to bring about equality, they must hire the comparatively tiny number of women making it through these courses over similarly qualified men, simply for the sake of doing so.
  - saraid216 12y ago
    How many employed programmers have a CS degree?
    - ripb 12y ago
      Can't find anything cite-able on it unfortunately.