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Retention is directly related to promotion imo. You can't promote someone you can't keep. Very much agree that learning from other industries should happen, an

Retention is directly related to promotion imo. You can't promote someone you can't keep. Very much agree that learning from other industries should happen, and I've asked myself the same question. Why is computer science moving backwards, when other traditionally male fields have become much more gender balanced?

yarou 12y ago
Retention is directly correlated with promotion, but I'd argue it's pretty weak. The counter-examples here are people who have been pigeonholed into a position for decades, and I could see that happening to a woman not only in tech, but in other industries as well. You also have to take into consideration that some people simply don't have ambition for anything beyond their current job. As for "computer science" moving backwards, I suspect the gender distribution would be similar in any other STEM related major. Nowadays, I question the validity of a CS major entirely. Yes, you will formalize your knowledge, but I think actually coding on your own will teach you more practical knowledge. Women historically tend not to be very well represented in disciplines with formal domains of knowledge, though this trend is changing, albeit slowly. People also tend to forget the pioneers of AI and formal CS theory had women who made great strides in the fields. So I'm not sure the industry is necessarily moving backwards. Perhaps it's not moving as fast as you want it to :)
- rayiner 12y ago
  > As for "computer science" moving backwards, I suspect the gender distribution would be similar in any other STEM related major. You'd be wrong: http://www.randalolson.com/2014/06/14/percentage-of-bachelors-degrees-conferred-to-women-by-major-1970-2012 http://www.randalolson.com/2014/06/14/percentage-of-bachelor.... The percentage of degrees conferred to women in CS is down from 35% in the mid-1980's to under 20% today. The field is in fact moving backwards. Meanwhile, over 40% of the degrees conferred in math & statistics and physical sciences (the "S" and "M" in "STEM") go to women.
  - seanflyon 12y ago
    If you look at that graph you will notice the rate of women in CS go from halfway between Math and Engineering to matching the rate in Engineering. I think this is at least in part because as Computer Science matured as a field it became very much like Engineering: a well paying career working in private industry doing technical things. I think this attracted lots of men to the field but failed to attract as many women due in large part to gender roles in our society. That's my long-winded way of saying that CS "moving backwards" is not as accurate as "failing to fix problems that were already there, but not affecting CS as much until it grew up as an industry".

yarou 12y ago

Retention is directly correlated with promotion, but I'd argue it's pretty weak. The counter-examples here are people who have been pigeonholed into a position for decades, and I could see that happening to a woman not only in tech, but in other industries as well. You also have to take into consideration that some people simply don't have ambition for anything beyond their current job. As for "computer science" moving backwards, I suspect the gender distribution would be similar in any other STEM related major. Nowadays, I question the validity of a CS major entirely. Yes, you will formalize your knowledge, but I think actually coding on your own will teach you more practical knowledge. Women historically tend not to be very well represented in disciplines with formal domains of knowledge, though this trend is changing, albeit slowly. People also tend to forget the pioneers of AI and formal CS theory had women who made great strides in the fields. So I'm not sure the industry is necessarily moving backwards. Perhaps it's not moving as fast as you want it to :)

rayiner 12y ago
> As for "computer science" moving backwards, I suspect the gender distribution would be similar in any other STEM related major. You'd be wrong: http://www.randalolson.com/2014/06/14/percentage-of-bachelors-degrees-conferred-to-women-by-major-1970-2012 http://www.randalolson.com/2014/06/14/percentage-of-bachelor.... The percentage of degrees conferred to women in CS is down from 35% in the mid-1980's to under 20% today. The field is in fact moving backwards. Meanwhile, over 40% of the degrees conferred in math & statistics and physical sciences (the "S" and "M" in "STEM") go to women.
- seanflyon 12y ago
  If you look at that graph you will notice the rate of women in CS go from halfway between Math and Engineering to matching the rate in Engineering. I think this is at least in part because as Computer Science matured as a field it became very much like Engineering: a well paying career working in private industry doing technical things. I think this attracted lots of men to the field but failed to attract as many women due in large part to gender roles in our society. That's my long-winded way of saying that CS "moving backwards" is not as accurate as "failing to fix problems that were already there, but not affecting CS as much until it grew up as an industry".