6 ms·

Gnome Foundation and Groupon product names – Updated

112 points by johngd 12y ago

joshstrange 12y ago
Hmmm.... This doesn't seem to line up with what Gnome said [0]: > It was almost inconceivable to us that Groupon, with over $2.5 billion in annual revenue, a full legal team and a huge engineering staff would not have heard of the GNOME project, found our trademark registration using a casual search, or even found our website, but we nevertheless got in touch with them and asked them to pick another name. Not only did Groupon refuse, but it has now filed even more trademark applications (the full list of applications they filed can be found here [1], here [2] and here). To use the GNOME name for a proprietary software product that is antithetical to the fundamental ideas of the GNOME community, the free software community and the GNU project is outrageous. Yet Groupon says: > We’ve been communicating with the Gnome Foundation for months to try to come to a mutually satisfactory resolution, including alternative branding options, and we’re happy to continue those conversations. And if we can’t come up with a resolution, we’ll be glad to look for another name. If we take the Gnome post as fact it appears Groupon thought they could get away with this then when they saw the (potential) backlash they backed away from their position. This may not be the case but I'm much more inclined to believe Gnome over Groupon [0] https://www.gnome.org/groupon/ https://www.gnome.org/groupon/ [1] http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=86200190%0A86200193%0A86200194%0A86200196%0A86200657%0A86200661%0A86200759%0A86200763%0A86200765%0A86227618%0A&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=multiStatus http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=86200190%0A86200193%0A8620... [2] http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=86287930%0A86287935%0A86287938%0A86287940%0A86287946%0A86287951%0A&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=multiStatus http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=86287930%0A86287935%0A8628... [3] http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=86441913%0A86441922%0A86441923%0A86441925%0A86441926%0A86441930%0A86441933%0A86441934%0A86441937%0A86441941%0A86441945%0A86441951%0A&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=multiStatus http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=86441913%0A86441922%0A8644...
- thoughtpalette 12y ago
  Either way Groupon made the right decision here imo
  - aDevilInMe 12y ago
    Yet I do not see Groupon apologising for their behaviour, which was evil.
    - Udo 12y ago
      I don't think you can characterize it as being evil. There's also no clear ulterior motive for pushing through with the name, and "capitalizing on the name recognition of the Gnome project" is not a valid hypothesis since that name doesn't mean anything for 99% of Groupon's customers. It looks more like they were just being a typical stubborn corporation. Some product manager got really attached to the name and they tried to hang on to it as a matter of course, because they're massive and feel they don't have to budge to anything. In the end, they caved to negative publicity, as any company in their position would.
      - couchand 12y ago
        You don't say anything that's not exactly right, but you're still missing the point. They had the opportunity to own up to their mistake and seek the goodwill of the community. They missed that chance. Perhaps not "evil", but certainly worth some continued indignation.
        Udo 12y ago
        Evil was the point, I don't think I missed that. It seems to me your point is I failed to recognize how much indignation this caused, but that wasn't really within the scope of the comment I was replying to. And I'm not trying to debate whether continued indignation is warranted or not. My suspicion is it'll blow over pretty quickly, though, if for no other reason than there are more pressing issues keeping most open source developers awake as opposed to an already resolved trademark dispute which never even went to court. This was a good day, wasn't it?
        aDevilInMe 12y ago
        Whilst GNOME has not fully disclosed the information, which has been disgust for months at Board Meetings, I would stand by the evil comment. Groupon, the massive for profit organisation, made a conscious decision ("Not only did Groupon refuse ...")to basically say FU to GNOME. They then used their position as a major organisation to try and coerce them into an unacceptable situation("alternative branding options") which included filling more trademark applications. I would, and do, call them bullies and bullies are evil.
- trjordan 12y ago
  It's not always about simple existence. I suspect they thought they could get away with doing something that's totally different -- but the reaction they saw way that their users wouldn't see it that way. They knew it existed, but they didn't know how much of a backlash they would be. Hindsight is 20/20.
  - kstrauser 12y ago
    It's not surprising that people were confused: > ...said Eric Lefkofsky, CEO. "When it's complete, Gnome will serve as an operating system for merchants to run their entire operation and enable them to create real-time promotions that bring customers into their business when they need them the most." I can understand GNOME being upset that a product described by its CEO as "an operating system" would pick their already well established name.
- revelation 12y ago
  It's like squatting on someones reserved parking and then trying to strike up a conversation on alternative parking options with them. The only reasonable answer is get the fuck off.
cpach 12y ago
See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8590335 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8590335
- dang 12y ago
  Thank you. We missed that one.
pkaye 12y ago
New trademark under consideration... KDE :)
kstrauser 12y ago
In the words of Winston Churchill, more or less: Groupon will always do the right thing... but only after everything else fails.
fdej 12y ago
"There is some recent confusion" is such a wonderful euphemism.
rasengan 12y ago
Groupon lies. However the end result is good either way for GNOME and open source. Now the only question is why was the fastest up voted post in HN history which was Gnome vs Groupon in favor of Gnome moderated to the second page while this Groupon post is at the top of the front page with almost no votes! Does someone at HN have stock in groupon or something? Either way it's time for a transparent Blockchain based HN/reddit. This moderator bias crap is bs.
- herge 12y ago
  > Either way it's time for a transparent Blockchain based HN/reddit. I'm sure you could drum up something along with the group from comp.lang.lisp who are trying to write reddit back in lisp.
  - SwellJoe 12y ago
    FWIW, Hacker News is written in arc, a variant of Lisp. So, there's that.
- valarauca1 12y ago
  >Blockchain based HN/reddit. This moderator bias crap is bs. Problem you'll run into is that storage space isn't free. And every single miner having a mirrored copy of HN wouldn't exactly burn though storage quickly, but wouldn't exactly be a very good way to create this transparency.
  - rasengan 12y ago
    It doesn't have to be the Bitcoin blockchain and doesn't need to be mirrored on 100s of machines. As long as it is transparent, query/browsable and mirrored on a few machines for authenticity it will be enough to protect against moderators having too much unscrupulous biased money/profit based power.
- AnkhMorporkian 12y ago
  I want to see any emails before I determine that they were lying. There's no reason to assume bad faith.
ppereira 12y ago
From the linked post: > UPDATE: After additional conversations with the open source community and the Gnome Foundation, we have decided to abandon our pending trademark applications for “Gnome.” We will choose a new name for our product going forward.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
johngd 12y ago
Interestingly, their largest publicity bump since July was largely negative, at least among those that that would read tech news: http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=groupon http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=groupon Considering that their <name-TBD> point-of-sale platform was largely targeted at small businesses that assumingly would follow this type of news, I am curious how long it takes for them to rebrand this product and how long they wait to roll it out... if at all.
SwellJoe 12y ago
How is it that every time I see any article, blog post, whatever, about Groupon, including posts by Groupon themselves, I find myself feeling kinda like I need a shower? Some of their sliminess gets on me every time I come in contact with anything they do. It takes incredible chutzpah (and not in a good way) to operate the way they operate. They wanted to trademark "Gnome" for a software product, and expected the GNOME project to just roll over and let it happen! It's as though no one else on the planet even exists or matters, in their estimation. How is it that so many seemingly reputable investors are involved in this thing again? Groupon should have died on the vine six months into the story, but it didn't, and now we have to deal with their bullshit forever, I guess.
- Rayearth 12y ago
  Yea, I was wondering where I had heard of Groupon before recently - I assumed that it was due to some of their shady business practices hitting the news - and realized that these were the same guys that sent a recruitment email about a junior Rails dev position to David Heinemeier Hansson.
hadoukenio 12y ago
As a show of good faith, Groupon should write the Gnome Foundation a check for the remaining $12k (currently at $68k)
- SEJeff 12y ago
  It would be a tax write off for them either way, so a huge PR win, and a small tax win.
  - pit 12y ago
    Maybe this is actually a really sneaky fundraiser for GNOME, sponsored by Groupon.
subpixel 12y ago
"We love open source at Groupon. We have open sourced a number of projects on Groupon github." I would have expected some reference to how crucial open source has been, and continues to be, to Groupon's ability to function as a modern internet business. Not a small omission.
_lce0 12y ago
Gnome made more than 60k from this, while Groupon declined their plans. Flawless victory?
- venomsnake 12y ago
  IANAL but I think it will be nightmare for their accountants. There should be some safeguards in the law that you cannot easily re purpose solicited donations for a cause.
  - lbearl 12y ago
    IAANAL but I'm pretty sure the way it works in the US is that donations go to the organization and can be used for any purpose, even if they were originally solicited for a specific purpose.
  - jaaron 12y ago
    It's sad that this was the first time I donated to GNOME given how much I've used their software in the past. I certainly don't regret the donation regardless of how it is used.
  - rectang 12y ago
    The GNOME folks considered that in their solicitation. From <http://gnome.org/groupon/> http://gnome.org/groupon/>: If we are able to defend the mark without spending this amount, we will use the remaining funds to bolster and improve GNOME. I donated, and I'm pleased that they exhibited such forethought and will still be able to make good use of the funds.
hydrozen 12y ago
I hope they rename it to "Washington Redskins".

112 points by johngd 12y ago

Hmmm.... This doesn't seem to line up with what Gnome said [0]: > It was almost inconceivable to us that Groupon, with over $2.5 billion in annual revenue, a full legal team and a huge engineering staff would not have heard of the GNOME project, found our trademark registration using a casual search, or even found our website, but we nevertheless got in touch with them and asked them to pick another name. Not only did Groupon refuse, but it has now filed even more trademark applications (the full list of applications they filed can be found here [1], here [2] and here). To use the GNOME name for a proprietary software product that is antithetical to the fundamental ideas of the GNOME community, the free software community and the GNU project is outrageous. Yet Groupon says: > We’ve been communicating with the Gnome Foundation for months to try to come to a mutually satisfactory resolution, including alternative branding options, and we’re happy to continue those conversations. And if we can’t come up with a resolution, we’ll be glad to look for another name. If we take the Gnome post as fact it appears Groupon thought they could get away with this then when they saw the (potential) backlash they backed away from their position. This may not be the case but I'm much more inclined to believe Gnome over Groupon [0] https://www.gnome.org/groupon/ https://www.gnome.org/groupon/ [1] http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=86200190%0A86200193%0A86200194%0A86200196%0A86200657%0A86200661%0A86200759%0A86200763%0A86200765%0A86227618%0A&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=multiStatus http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=86200190%0A86200193%0A8620... [2] http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=86287930%0A86287935%0A86287938%0A86287940%0A86287946%0A86287951%0A&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=multiStatus http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=86287930%0A86287935%0A8628... [3] http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=86441913%0A86441922%0A86441923%0A86441925%0A86441926%0A86441930%0A86441933%0A86441934%0A86441937%0A86441941%0A86441945%0A86441951%0A&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=multiStatus http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=86441913%0A86441922%0A8644...

thoughtpalette 12y ago
Either way Groupon made the right decision here imo
- aDevilInMe 12y ago
  Yet I do not see Groupon apologising for their behaviour, which was evil.
  - Udo 12y ago
    I don't think you can characterize it as being evil. There's also no clear ulterior motive for pushing through with the name, and "capitalizing on the name recognition of the Gnome project" is not a valid hypothesis since that name doesn't mean anything for 99% of Groupon's customers. It looks more like they were just being a typical stubborn corporation. Some product manager got really attached to the name and they tried to hang on to it as a matter of course, because they're massive and feel they don't have to budge to anything. In the end, they caved to negative publicity, as any company in their position would.
    - couchand 12y ago
      You don't say anything that's not exactly right, but you're still missing the point. They had the opportunity to own up to their mistake and seek the goodwill of the community. They missed that chance. Perhaps not "evil", but certainly worth some continued indignation.
      - Udo 12y ago
        Evil was the point, I don't think I missed that. It seems to me your point is I failed to recognize how much indignation this caused, but that wasn't really within the scope of the comment I was replying to. And I'm not trying to debate whether continued indignation is warranted or not. My suspicion is it'll blow over pretty quickly, though, if for no other reason than there are more pressing issues keeping most open source developers awake as opposed to an already resolved trademark dispute which never even went to court. This was a good day, wasn't it?
        aDevilInMe 12y ago
        Whilst GNOME has not fully disclosed the information, which has been disgust for months at Board Meetings, I would stand by the evil comment. Groupon, the massive for profit organisation, made a conscious decision ("Not only did Groupon refuse ...")to basically say FU to GNOME. They then used their position as a major organisation to try and coerce them into an unacceptable situation("alternative branding options") which included filling more trademark applications. I would, and do, call them bullies and bullies are evil.
trjordan 12y ago
It's not always about simple existence. I suspect they thought they could get away with doing something that's totally different -- but the reaction they saw way that their users wouldn't see it that way. They knew it existed, but they didn't know how much of a backlash they would be. Hindsight is 20/20.
- kstrauser 12y ago
  It's not surprising that people were confused: > ...said Eric Lefkofsky, CEO. "When it's complete, Gnome will serve as an operating system for merchants to run their entire operation and enable them to create real-time promotions that bring customers into their business when they need them the most." I can understand GNOME being upset that a product described by its CEO as "an operating system" would pick their already well established name.
revelation 12y ago
It's like squatting on someones reserved parking and then trying to strike up a conversation on alternative parking options with them. The only reasonable answer is get the fuck off.

cpach 12y ago

See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8590335 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8590335

dang 12y ago
Thank you. We missed that one.

pkaye 12y ago

New trademark under consideration... KDE :)

kstrauser 12y ago

In the words of Winston Churchill, more or less: Groupon will always do the right thing... but only after everything else fails.

fdej 12y ago

"There is some recent confusion" is such a wonderful euphemism.

rasengan 12y ago

Groupon lies. However the end result is good either way for GNOME and open source. Now the only question is why was the fastest up voted post in HN history which was Gnome vs Groupon in favor of Gnome moderated to the second page while this Groupon post is at the top of the front page with almost no votes! Does someone at HN have stock in groupon or something? Either way it's time for a transparent Blockchain based HN/reddit. This moderator bias crap is bs.

herge 12y ago
> Either way it's time for a transparent Blockchain based HN/reddit. I'm sure you could drum up something along with the group from comp.lang.lisp who are trying to write reddit back in lisp.
- SwellJoe 12y ago
  FWIW, Hacker News is written in arc, a variant of Lisp. So, there's that.
valarauca1 12y ago
>Blockchain based HN/reddit. This moderator bias crap is bs. Problem you'll run into is that storage space isn't free. And every single miner having a mirrored copy of HN wouldn't exactly burn though storage quickly, but wouldn't exactly be a very good way to create this transparency.
- rasengan 12y ago
  It doesn't have to be the Bitcoin blockchain and doesn't need to be mirrored on 100s of machines. As long as it is transparent, query/browsable and mirrored on a few machines for authenticity it will be enough to protect against moderators having too much unscrupulous biased money/profit based power.
AnkhMorporkian 12y ago
I want to see any emails before I determine that they were lying. There's no reason to assume bad faith.

ppereira 12y ago

From the linked post: > UPDATE: After additional conversations with the open source community and the Gnome Foundation, we have decided to abandon our pending trademark applications for “Gnome.” We will choose a new name for our product going forward.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

johngd 12y ago

Interestingly, their largest publicity bump since July was largely negative, at least among those that that would read tech news: http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=groupon http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=groupon Considering that their <name-TBD> point-of-sale platform was largely targeted at small businesses that assumingly would follow this type of news, I am curious how long it takes for them to rebrand this product and how long they wait to roll it out... if at all.

SwellJoe 12y ago

How is it that every time I see any article, blog post, whatever, about Groupon, including posts by Groupon themselves, I find myself feeling kinda like I need a shower? Some of their sliminess gets on me every time I come in contact with anything they do. It takes incredible chutzpah (and not in a good way) to operate the way they operate. They wanted to trademark "Gnome" for a software product, and expected the GNOME project to just roll over and let it happen! It's as though no one else on the planet even exists or matters, in their estimation. How is it that so many seemingly reputable investors are involved in this thing again? Groupon should have died on the vine six months into the story, but it didn't, and now we have to deal with their bullshit forever, I guess.

Rayearth 12y ago
Yea, I was wondering where I had heard of Groupon before recently - I assumed that it was due to some of their shady business practices hitting the news - and realized that these were the same guys that sent a recruitment email about a junior Rails dev position to David Heinemeier Hansson.

hadoukenio 12y ago

As a show of good faith, Groupon should write the Gnome Foundation a check for the remaining $12k (currently at $68k)

SEJeff 12y ago
It would be a tax write off for them either way, so a huge PR win, and a small tax win.
- pit 12y ago
  Maybe this is actually a really sneaky fundraiser for GNOME, sponsored by Groupon.

subpixel 12y ago

"We love open source at Groupon. We have open sourced a number of projects on Groupon github." I would have expected some reference to how crucial open source has been, and continues to be, to Groupon's ability to function as a modern internet business. Not a small omission.

_lce0 12y ago

Gnome made more than 60k from this, while Groupon declined their plans. Flawless victory?

venomsnake 12y ago
IANAL but I think it will be nightmare for their accountants. There should be some safeguards in the law that you cannot easily re purpose solicited donations for a cause.
- lbearl 12y ago
  IAANAL but I'm pretty sure the way it works in the US is that donations go to the organization and can be used for any purpose, even if they were originally solicited for a specific purpose.
- jaaron 12y ago
  It's sad that this was the first time I donated to GNOME given how much I've used their software in the past. I certainly don't regret the donation regardless of how it is used.
- rectang 12y ago
  The GNOME folks considered that in their solicitation. From <http://gnome.org/groupon/> http://gnome.org/groupon/>: If we are able to defend the mark without spending this amount, we will use the remaining funds to bolster and improve GNOME. I donated, and I'm pleased that they exhibited such forethought and will still be able to make good use of the funds.

hydrozen 12y ago

I hope they rename it to "Washington Redskins".