7 ms·

Palm restore pre iTunes sync. Your move Apple

10 points by nexneo 17y ago

tptacek 17y ago
At some point, Palm starts looking even less rational, because the cost of the strategy they're pursuing exceeds the cost of just building their own sync system.
- jrockway 17y ago
  Writing a cross-platform media management system that everyone already uses is easier than changing a few constants in their firmware source code and rebuilding it?
  - tptacek 17y ago
    No, that's a straw man argument and I suspect you know that. RIM "syncs" with iTunes using a standalone program. It is harder to provide an excellent user experience with two programs than with one, but it is doable. Palm is free-riding on Apple's software, and whatever you may think of that, they are also providing their users with an unreliable user experience that they have no business advertising as a key feature. They're also putting in lots of effort to do that, effort which could be spent on a seamless iTunes sync that didn't rely on USB hackery.
    - jpwagner 17y ago
      You're way off here. The article suggests that the workaround took ~40 hours. Plus, it's not just "free-riding" on Apple's software, it's using Apple's music distribution hub. You may be thinking it's as simple as writing a winamp skin and having a "PalmTunes" installer disc come with each Pre, but it's not...
      - protomyth 17y ago
        They do not have to write a whole media software package. They can write a program that does the sync.
      - tptacek 17y ago
        The points you're making here have nothing to do with my argument.
        jpwagner 17y ago
        I'm not going to go back and forth with you. If that's true, it's self-evident.
      - ingenium 17y ago
        > The article suggests that the workaround took ~40 hours. Actually, this is a reference to Palm saying they will continue making the Pre sync with iTunes until a fix would take more than 40 hours to implement. They said the last fix took just a few minutes, and I'm sure this one took about the same amount of time (add one more line of code to change the Manufacturer ID in addition to the Vendor ID when media sync is selected).
- ZeroGravitas 17y ago
  The free advertising this generates probably earns more than the engineering time costs.
  - protomyth 17y ago
    They get a lot more column space in traditional publications for sure, but they also get a lot of talk from people that the sync keeps not working. Customer satisfaction and stability are better. Given the current situation, could a person really recommend a Palm pre to a friend who wants and a device with and easy sync to iTunes. You know you will get a call right after Apple updates its software. Plus, if you tell your friend to buy a third party solution (missing sync), the Palm pre version is in danger of breaking because of Palm's current antics. I think companies need to look at stability in their software / hardware more then ever. This simple, reliably solution is often a better selling point then the massive feature monster that is hard to use or unreliable.
    - tptacek 17y ago
      And what's the message they're hoping to communicate? "Look, everyone, Apple's locked up the media distribution market"? Because that message gains sales for Apple in the real world.
  - tptacek 17y ago
    You really think this is good publicity? I don't think it is. I think it makes them look like Apple's product offering is so powerful that the only way to compete is for Palm to hack their way into it. I also think it conveys the message that at any given time a key feature of the platform could stop working.
- Locke1689 17y ago
  -2 for stating an insightful technical opinion? Seriously HN?
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
protomyth 17y ago
Palm's continued attempts to out-fake Apple are more for publicity then any useful feature for their customers. Never mind a standards organization is not happy with them (They signed a contract to get their USB ID, that they are now violating), but they know that their current solution will continue to break. Also, it seems that each time they change their sync, they break third party solutions. Write or buy a sync program and give your customers some stability.
- jpwagner 17y ago
  Certainly it's tactical, though I wouldn't say it's all publicity. I think they're trying to hardball Apple into opening up (or negotiating an agreement for use of) their distribution channel.
  - tptacek 17y ago
    I'm not sure I see how this is "hardball" for Apple. The risk for Apple is that someone else's product will work as advertised. The risk for Palm is that at any given time, Apple can choose to turn off their product. Palm isn't playing from a position of strength here. Every time this cat and mouse game cycles, more people hear that Palm's sync is unreliable. Palm never impacts Apple's product.
    - jpwagner 17y ago
      There's a development impact...Apple has to find a way to close them off. Then Palm writes a new workaround, and Apple has to expend more effort again. The underlying statement to Apple is: if you don't want Palm to do this, you have to open up the dialogue...
      - protomyth 17y ago
        The dialogue so far is USB-IF telling Palm they are in the wrong and their customers not having a feature they paid for. Palm doesn't have the sales to keep this up, and, given the lawsuit happy lawyers, is in danger of a class action suit by Palm pre owners. There is obvious bad blood between the companies, but Palm needs to start doing what's best for its customers. The realization that Apple can keep this up far longer than Palm would be a good starting point.

10 points by nexneo 17y ago

At some point, Palm starts looking even less rational, because the cost of the strategy they're pursuing exceeds the cost of just building their own sync system.

jrockway 17y ago
Writing a cross-platform media management system that everyone already uses is easier than changing a few constants in their firmware source code and rebuilding it?
- tptacek 17y ago
  No, that's a straw man argument and I suspect you know that. RIM "syncs" with iTunes using a standalone program. It is harder to provide an excellent user experience with two programs than with one, but it is doable. Palm is free-riding on Apple's software, and whatever you may think of that, they are also providing their users with an unreliable user experience that they have no business advertising as a key feature. They're also putting in lots of effort to do that, effort which could be spent on a seamless iTunes sync that didn't rely on USB hackery.
  - jpwagner 17y ago
    You're way off here. The article suggests that the workaround took ~40 hours. Plus, it's not just "free-riding" on Apple's software, it's using Apple's music distribution hub. You may be thinking it's as simple as writing a winamp skin and having a "PalmTunes" installer disc come with each Pre, but it's not...
    - protomyth 17y ago
      They do not have to write a whole media software package. They can write a program that does the sync.
    - tptacek 17y ago
      The points you're making here have nothing to do with my argument.
      - jpwagner 17y ago
        I'm not going to go back and forth with you. If that's true, it's self-evident.
    - ingenium 17y ago
      > The article suggests that the workaround took ~40 hours. Actually, this is a reference to Palm saying they will continue making the Pre sync with iTunes until a fix would take more than 40 hours to implement. They said the last fix took just a few minutes, and I'm sure this one took about the same amount of time (add one more line of code to change the Manufacturer ID in addition to the Vendor ID when media sync is selected).
ZeroGravitas 17y ago
The free advertising this generates probably earns more than the engineering time costs.
- protomyth 17y ago
  They get a lot more column space in traditional publications for sure, but they also get a lot of talk from people that the sync keeps not working. Customer satisfaction and stability are better. Given the current situation, could a person really recommend a Palm pre to a friend who wants and a device with and easy sync to iTunes. You know you will get a call right after Apple updates its software. Plus, if you tell your friend to buy a third party solution (missing sync), the Palm pre version is in danger of breaking because of Palm's current antics. I think companies need to look at stability in their software / hardware more then ever. This simple, reliably solution is often a better selling point then the massive feature monster that is hard to use or unreliable.
  - tptacek 17y ago
    And what's the message they're hoping to communicate? "Look, everyone, Apple's locked up the media distribution market"? Because that message gains sales for Apple in the real world.
- tptacek 17y ago
  You really think this is good publicity? I don't think it is. I think it makes them look like Apple's product offering is so powerful that the only way to compete is for Palm to hack their way into it. I also think it conveys the message that at any given time a key feature of the platform could stop working.
Locke1689 17y ago
-2 for stating an insightful technical opinion? Seriously HN?
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]

protomyth 17y ago

Palm's continued attempts to out-fake Apple are more for publicity then any useful feature for their customers. Never mind a standards organization is not happy with them (They signed a contract to get their USB ID, that they are now violating), but they know that their current solution will continue to break. Also, it seems that each time they change their sync, they break third party solutions. Write or buy a sync program and give your customers some stability.

jpwagner 17y ago
Certainly it's tactical, though I wouldn't say it's all publicity. I think they're trying to hardball Apple into opening up (or negotiating an agreement for use of) their distribution channel.
- tptacek 17y ago
  I'm not sure I see how this is "hardball" for Apple. The risk for Apple is that someone else's product will work as advertised. The risk for Palm is that at any given time, Apple can choose to turn off their product. Palm isn't playing from a position of strength here. Every time this cat and mouse game cycles, more people hear that Palm's sync is unreliable. Palm never impacts Apple's product.
  - jpwagner 17y ago
    There's a development impact...Apple has to find a way to close them off. Then Palm writes a new workaround, and Apple has to expend more effort again. The underlying statement to Apple is: if you don't want Palm to do this, you have to open up the dialogue...
    - protomyth 17y ago
      The dialogue so far is USB-IF telling Palm they are in the wrong and their customers not having a feature they paid for. Palm doesn't have the sales to keep this up, and, given the lawsuit happy lawyers, is in danger of a class action suit by Palm pre owners. There is obvious bad blood between the companies, but Palm needs to start doing what's best for its customers. The realization that Apple can keep this up far longer than Palm would be a good starting point.