6 ms·

Could you kindly explain me then what's the point of registering a trademark? Is it something you can then wave with in front of jury? Do you really need $80k f

by skratlo 12y ago

Could you kindly explain me then what's the point of registering a trademark? Is it something you can then wave with in front of jury? Do you really need $80k for that? Do you need $80k to print out your accepted trademark application, and prove that you're in the business for 17 years? Sorry this is just complete non-sense and failure of the system.

voidz 12y ago
Well what they say is "if it costs less we will put the rest into our product"...
jabbernotty 12y ago
Yes, it is a disappointment. And yet, it is the reality. As a result, the GNOME team does still need to pay their lawyers.
- crorella 12y ago
  This is really disappointing and could be use to harass a company, what stops a malicious group of people do a "copyright ddos" by just forcing a company to pay 80k each time they need to defend it's trademarks?
  - maaaats 12y ago
    That's how patent trolls operate. Cheaper for companies to pay their fee than to fight the battle.
icebraining 12y ago
Could you kindly explain me then what's the point of registering a trademark? Mostly so that you can get (triple) damages and lawyer fees from the infringer in case you win the lawsuit.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
bad_user 12y ago
Not only that, but those $80k could have paid for quite a few months of development, but instead those will be money going down the drain because of a broken justice system. And they have the nerve to say that IP laws are fueling innovation.
- ekianjo 12y ago
  Trademark has barely anything to do with IP laws. You are referring to patents, and trademark legislation has nothing to do with patents.
  - gavinballard 12y ago
    Trademarks are a form of intellectual property.
    - misterbishop 12y ago
      'Intellectual Property' is not a legal classification, and shouldn't be. Patents, Trademarks, Copyrights, and looser-defined 'trade secrets' all have distinct purposes. Saying "Intellectual Property" when you mean "Trademark" gives the impression that the holder has all kinds of legal protections which don't actually apply. Over the long term, there's danger that legal theories will change to further expand the rights of corporate publishers.
      - dragonwriter 12y ago
        > 'Intellectual Property' is not a legal classification, and shouldn't be. Intellectual Property isn't a classification defined in law, but it is an analytic classification used in law, the same way that various other subcategories of "property" are, to discuss related protections. ∀X : X ∈ { Copyright, Trademark, Patent, ... }, X ⊂ Intellectual Property ⊂ Intangible Personal Property ⊂ Personal Property ⊂ Property.
        dalke 12y ago
akmiller 12y ago
The system is a mess. I have a small side project and I trademarked the name, yet a competitor of mine used my trademark to promote their site and after speaking with several people about my situation they made it clear that unless I was willing to put up about six figures to fight it there isn't much I could do.
- parfe 12y ago
  None of those people you spoke to sound like lawyers. It won't cost six figures to have a lawyer send a letter. Your competitor might not like the six figures prospect of defending themselves.
  - akmiller 12y ago
    Actually they were business people who have been through this battle before spending in the six figures to defend their marks (along with my brother who is a patent attorney). But yes, you are correct that sending a letter is the first step but if that step is ignored then the next step will cost money...and too much money for a single developers side project!
weavie 12y ago
Surely though, if Gnome win the case then Groupon would become liable to pay the costs?
- matt_morgan 12y ago
  Not necessarily. There are a lot of circumstances in which the case could end in Gnome's favor, without that judgment.
  - weavie 12y ago
    Do you have an example of such a circumstance?
    - matt_morgan 12y ago
      I'm not going to Google it for you. But they could settle the case, e.g. Groupon could agree not to use the name after it becomes clear that Gnome has spent enough to assemble a legal defense. And Gnome decides that the cost of pursuing further action makes it too risky.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
dragonwriter 12y ago
> Could you kindly explain me then what's the point of registering a trademark? --- * Public notice of your claim of ownership of the mark; * A legal presumption of your ownership of the mark and your exclusive right to use the mark nationwide on or in connection with the goods/services listed in the registration; * The ability to bring an action concerning the mark in federal court; * The use of the U.S. registration as a basis to obtain registration in foreign countries; * The ability to record the U.S. registration with the U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) Service to prevent importation of infringing foreign goods; * The right to use the federal registration symbol ®; and Listing in the United States Patent and Trademark Office’s online databases. --- from http://www.uspto.gov/faq/trademarks.jsp#_Toc275426681 http://www.uspto.gov/faq/trademarks.jsp#_Toc275426681
vec 12y ago
No, you need that 80k to argue that Groupon's proposed product would infringe your trademark. US trademarks are only good for the line of business I'm in. If I were to publish a software product called Mustang, for example, Ford wouldn't be able to sue me for copyright infringement. My product shares a trademark with one of theirs, but it's in a different enough market that the two trademarks don't conflict with each other. It sounds like Groupon's proposed product is point of sale hardware. That's different enough from a desktop window manager that Groupon can quite possibly get a lawyer to convince a jury that they're different businesses. Therefore GNOME Foundation has to pay a lawyer to stand up and argue the other side of the case.

by skratlo 12y ago

voidz 12y ago

Well what they say is "if it costs less we will put the rest into our product"...

jabbernotty 12y ago

Yes, it is a disappointment. And yet, it is the reality. As a result, the GNOME team does still need to pay their lawyers.

crorella 12y ago
This is really disappointing and could be use to harass a company, what stops a malicious group of people do a "copyright ddos" by just forcing a company to pay 80k each time they need to defend it's trademarks?
- maaaats 12y ago
  That's how patent trolls operate. Cheaper for companies to pay their fee than to fight the battle.

icebraining 12y ago

Could you kindly explain me then what's the point of registering a trademark? Mostly so that you can get (triple) damages and lawyer fees from the infringer in case you win the lawsuit.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

bad_user 12y ago

Not only that, but those $80k could have paid for quite a few months of development, but instead those will be money going down the drain because of a broken justice system. And they have the nerve to say that IP laws are fueling innovation.

ekianjo 12y ago
Trademark has barely anything to do with IP laws. You are referring to patents, and trademark legislation has nothing to do with patents.
- gavinballard 12y ago
  Trademarks are a form of intellectual property.
  - misterbishop 12y ago
    'Intellectual Property' is not a legal classification, and shouldn't be. Patents, Trademarks, Copyrights, and looser-defined 'trade secrets' all have distinct purposes. Saying "Intellectual Property" when you mean "Trademark" gives the impression that the holder has all kinds of legal protections which don't actually apply. Over the long term, there's danger that legal theories will change to further expand the rights of corporate publishers.
    - dragonwriter 12y ago
      > 'Intellectual Property' is not a legal classification, and shouldn't be. Intellectual Property isn't a classification defined in law, but it is an analytic classification used in law, the same way that various other subcategories of "property" are, to discuss related protections. ∀X : X ∈ { Copyright, Trademark, Patent, ... }, X ⊂ Intellectual Property ⊂ Intangible Personal Property ⊂ Personal Property ⊂ Property.
      - dalke 12y ago

akmiller 12y ago

The system is a mess. I have a small side project and I trademarked the name, yet a competitor of mine used my trademark to promote their site and after speaking with several people about my situation they made it clear that unless I was willing to put up about six figures to fight it there isn't much I could do.

parfe 12y ago
None of those people you spoke to sound like lawyers. It won't cost six figures to have a lawyer send a letter. Your competitor might not like the six figures prospect of defending themselves.
- akmiller 12y ago
  Actually they were business people who have been through this battle before spending in the six figures to defend their marks (along with my brother who is a patent attorney). But yes, you are correct that sending a letter is the first step but if that step is ignored then the next step will cost money...and too much money for a single developers side project!

weavie 12y ago

Surely though, if Gnome win the case then Groupon would become liable to pay the costs?

matt_morgan 12y ago
Not necessarily. There are a lot of circumstances in which the case could end in Gnome's favor, without that judgment.
- weavie 12y ago
  Do you have an example of such a circumstance?
  - matt_morgan 12y ago
    I'm not going to Google it for you. But they could settle the case, e.g. Groupon could agree not to use the name after it becomes clear that Gnome has spent enough to assemble a legal defense. And Gnome decides that the cost of pursuing further action makes it too risky.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]

dragonwriter 12y ago

> Could you kindly explain me then what's the point of registering a trademark? --- * Public notice of your claim of ownership of the mark; * A legal presumption of your ownership of the mark and your exclusive right to use the mark nationwide on or in connection with the goods/services listed in the registration; * The ability to bring an action concerning the mark in federal court; * The use of the U.S. registration as a basis to obtain registration in foreign countries; * The ability to record the U.S. registration with the U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) Service to prevent importation of infringing foreign goods; * The right to use the federal registration symbol ®; and Listing in the United States Patent and Trademark Office’s online databases. --- from http://www.uspto.gov/faq/trademarks.jsp#_Toc275426681 http://www.uspto.gov/faq/trademarks.jsp#_Toc275426681

vec 12y ago

No, you need that 80k to argue that Groupon's proposed product would infringe your trademark. US trademarks are only good for the line of business I'm in. If I were to publish a software product called Mustang, for example, Ford wouldn't be able to sue me for copyright infringement. My product shares a trademark with one of theirs, but it's in a different enough market that the two trademarks don't conflict with each other. It sounds like Groupon's proposed product is point of sale hardware. That's different enough from a desktop window manager that Groupon can quite possibly get a lawyer to convince a jury that they're different businesses. Therefore GNOME Foundation has to pay a lawyer to stand up and argue the other side of the case.