4 ms·

Ehm.. so.. GNOME wants our help now. But how did they behave when GNOME 3 was announced to not work without systemd? Or hey, anyone remember that discussion on

by voidz 12y ago

Ehm.. so.. GNOME wants our help now. But how did they behave when GNOME 3 was announced to not work without systemd? Or hey, anyone remember that discussion on a GNOME developers' mailing list, where they planned to take out theming support, because "it is going against the ubiquitous experience we envision GNOME 3 to be"? This smells fishy to me. (I said it more harshly, but realised that I went too far, sorry about that.) Feel free to shoot holes in my theory.

unwind 12y ago
Following the links to Groupon's Gnome product pages makes it pretty simple to see that the basic claim is quite clearly real. No idea where you go from "this open source project doesn't develop in the direction I expect/want" to "this open source project deserves to lose their brand".
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
VMG 12y ago
You have no theory
sbinetd 12y ago
That's mighty nice of Groupon to drop money on 28 trademark applications just so the GNOME Foundation (who incidentally do more than make the GNOME desktop environment) can boost their end of year donations. They even managed to get Debian and Fedora in on it too! But really, it must be pretty disheartening to see people accuse your organisation of running a scam, just because they don't like design decisions a number of developers on a handful of your products made. Especially when the software in question has nothing to do with the discussion.
cokernel 12y ago
Groupon has indeed filed several trademark applications for the Gnome name, e.g., http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4801:uz6tu6.2.11 http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4801:uz6... What is the purported scam?
logicchains 12y ago
Regardless of what you think of GNOME, it's still a pretty slimy thing for Groupon to do. That kind of behaviour may be worth opposing on principle. "First they came for Gnome, and I did not speak out..."
the_why_of_y 12y ago
Where exactly was it "announced" that GNOME 3 does "not work without systemd"? GNOME 3 works on FreeBSD[1][2], you just don't get the robust and secure virtual terminal switching that only systemd's logind running on Linux can provide. GTK+ 3 is now fully themeable with standard W3C CSS[3]. You may need to use Tweak Tool to change your theme, but is that really too much to ask for? But please, don't let these facts stop you from cheering on large corporations as they trample all over open source projects. [1] http://blogs.gnome.org/mclasen/2014/02/19/on-portability/ http://blogs.gnome.org/mclasen/2014/02/19/on-portability/ [2] http://blogs.gnome.org/desrt/2014/03/26/gnome-3-12-and-freebsd-and-a-virtual-machine/ http://blogs.gnome.org/desrt/2014/03/26/gnome-3-12-and-freeb... [3] https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/GtkCssProvider.html https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/GtkCssProvider.html
- voidz 12y ago
  The only argument I tried to make, admittedly poorly, is that I notice a contrast between how good they say they are for open source, and actual behaviour from the developers. I did not say or intend to say "good for them, I hope GNOME loses their brand", well ok I did say that a little. So let me state it differently - that many of their own design decisions also were against open (libre) source philosophies.
  - icebraining 12y ago
    I don't think your definition of open source philosophies is widely shared.
  - Argorak 12y ago
    The product being free software doesn't entitle you to anything regarding their project policies, steering and development. It entitles you to a number of rights on the resulting product, nothing less and more. And that's already quite a lot.
- makomk 12y ago
  If I recall correctly, it's not just virtual terminal switching that you lose but also the ability to shutdown, reboot, suspend and hibernate your PC from the GUI - all of which now require logind - and probably other things like device mounting too. Gnome's also moving those to use Linux-specific kdbus ioctls directly. Oh, and those links are from 6 months ago, I wouldn't be surprised if things have gotten worse since then - Gnome have done stunts like this that they've gone back on in the past, such as their announcement that logind would work on non-systemd systems.

by voidz 12y ago

unwind 12y ago

Following the links to Groupon's Gnome product pages makes it pretty simple to see that the basic claim is quite clearly real. No idea where you go from "this open source project doesn't develop in the direction I expect/want" to "this open source project deserves to lose their brand".

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

VMG 12y ago

You have no theory

sbinetd 12y ago

That's mighty nice of Groupon to drop money on 28 trademark applications just so the GNOME Foundation (who incidentally do more than make the GNOME desktop environment) can boost their end of year donations. They even managed to get Debian and Fedora in on it too! But really, it must be pretty disheartening to see people accuse your organisation of running a scam, just because they don't like design decisions a number of developers on a handful of your products made. Especially when the software in question has nothing to do with the discussion.

cokernel 12y ago

Groupon has indeed filed several trademark applications for the Gnome name, e.g., http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4801:uz6tu6.2.11 http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4801:uz6... What is the purported scam?

logicchains 12y ago

Regardless of what you think of GNOME, it's still a pretty slimy thing for Groupon to do. That kind of behaviour may be worth opposing on principle. "First they came for Gnome, and I did not speak out..."

the_why_of_y 12y ago

Where exactly was it "announced" that GNOME 3 does "not work without systemd"? GNOME 3 works on FreeBSD[1][2], you just don't get the robust and secure virtual terminal switching that only systemd's logind running on Linux can provide. GTK+ 3 is now fully themeable with standard W3C CSS[3]. You may need to use Tweak Tool to change your theme, but is that really too much to ask for? But please, don't let these facts stop you from cheering on large corporations as they trample all over open source projects. [1] http://blogs.gnome.org/mclasen/2014/02/19/on-portability/ http://blogs.gnome.org/mclasen/2014/02/19/on-portability/ [2] http://blogs.gnome.org/desrt/2014/03/26/gnome-3-12-and-freebsd-and-a-virtual-machine/ http://blogs.gnome.org/desrt/2014/03/26/gnome-3-12-and-freeb... [3] https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/GtkCssProvider.html https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/GtkCssProvider.html

voidz 12y ago
The only argument I tried to make, admittedly poorly, is that I notice a contrast between how good they say they are for open source, and actual behaviour from the developers. I did not say or intend to say "good for them, I hope GNOME loses their brand", well ok I did say that a little. So let me state it differently - that many of their own design decisions also were against open (libre) source philosophies.
- icebraining 12y ago
  I don't think your definition of open source philosophies is widely shared.
- Argorak 12y ago
  The product being free software doesn't entitle you to anything regarding their project policies, steering and development. It entitles you to a number of rights on the resulting product, nothing less and more. And that's already quite a lot.
makomk 12y ago
If I recall correctly, it's not just virtual terminal switching that you lose but also the ability to shutdown, reboot, suspend and hibernate your PC from the GUI - all of which now require logind - and probably other things like device mounting too. Gnome's also moving those to use Linux-specific kdbus ioctls directly. Oh, and those links are from 6 months ago, I wouldn't be surprised if things have gotten worse since then - Gnome have done stunts like this that they've gone back on in the past, such as their announcement that logind would work on non-systemd systems.