7 ms·

If languages like Haskell and Erlang gave a competitive advantage, wouldn't we see companies which used them succeeding over those that don't? Maybe Go is fitt

by jshen 12y ago

If languages like Haskell and Erlang gave a competitive advantage, wouldn't we see companies which used them succeeding over those that don't? Maybe Go is fitting into the cultures that succeed, and if that's the case, well it's the better choice, right?

lmm 12y ago
> If languages like Haskell and Erlang gave a competitive advantage, wouldn't we see companies which used them succeeding over those that don't? We are. WhatsApp generated a flurry of interest around Erlang. Heroku uses it. I'm sure there are more examples. Google is at this point already a large corporation and probably already in decline (IMO). The tools they use are optimized for interchangeability of mediocre programmers, not for high productivity from a small team. Go is a perfectly good Java 1.4. (There's Docker using Go, but I think their whole approach is a bad idea).
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- jshen 12y ago
  You are seeing companies that use those languages suceeding at a higher rate than those that don't? I bet I can find 10 succeeding that use ruby or node for everyone that uses Erlang. We could also look at the open source world. For every riak there are 10 java sucesses of a similar kind. We'd need to do some real statistics but my bet is that we see no benefit from those languages in terms of success of the business.
  - lmm 12y ago
    > I bet I can find 10 succeeding that use ruby or node for everyone that uses Erlang. But that's not the question, is it? There are a lot of companies succeeding with ruby or node, but also a lot of companies failing with them. I'll bet the strike rate is better for Erlang companies.
    - jshen 12y ago
      Il bet that the choice of language has no impact on success.
      - codygman 12y ago
        What about whitespace? Do you think choosing it or brainfuck has an impact on success?
        jshen 12y ago
        Not relevant. I'm sure there are bad choices, but the difference between Go and Haskell is probably negligible or in Go's favor.
        lmm 12y ago
        So you think Go is a better language because companies that use Go are more likely to be successful because... Go is a better language? That's just circular reasoning. Do you have any numbers or experience here? (In my limited experience I've seen a 100% success rate for companies that use Haskell and a 0% success rate for companies that use Go, though as you can imagine I don't have a statistically valid sample size)
        jshen 12y ago
        Right, there is no good data at all suggesting that languages like Haskell are better for teams. Yet we are constantly served peoples overly confident opinions that they are.
        tome 12y ago
        We are? Links please.
        codygman 12y ago
        As someone with experience in both languages I disagree. Try parsing json in both languages and you'll see a difference. Composing functions that use channels simply isn't possible in Go (please prove me wrong). Go gives you kind of safe concurrency, Haskell gives you actual safe concurrency.
pjmlp 12y ago
> If languages like Haskell and Erlang gave a competitive advantage, wouldn't we see companies which used them succeeding over those that don't? Like these? https://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_in_industry https://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_in_industry https://www.erlang-solutions.com/industries https://www.erlang-solutions.com/industries https://ocaml.org/learn/companies.html https://ocaml.org/learn/companies.html http://fsharp.org/testimonials/ http://fsharp.org/testimonials/
- codygman 12y ago
  The stock price of Standard Chartered is 939 GBX currently.

by jshen 12y ago

lmm 12y ago

> If languages like Haskell and Erlang gave a competitive advantage, wouldn't we see companies which used them succeeding over those that don't? We are. WhatsApp generated a flurry of interest around Erlang. Heroku uses it. I'm sure there are more examples. Google is at this point already a large corporation and probably already in decline (IMO). The tools they use are optimized for interchangeability of mediocre programmers, not for high productivity from a small team. Go is a perfectly good Java 1.4. (There's Docker using Go, but I think their whole approach is a bad idea).

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
jshen 12y ago
You are seeing companies that use those languages suceeding at a higher rate than those that don't? I bet I can find 10 succeeding that use ruby or node for everyone that uses Erlang. We could also look at the open source world. For every riak there are 10 java sucesses of a similar kind. We'd need to do some real statistics but my bet is that we see no benefit from those languages in terms of success of the business.
- lmm 12y ago
  > I bet I can find 10 succeeding that use ruby or node for everyone that uses Erlang. But that's not the question, is it? There are a lot of companies succeeding with ruby or node, but also a lot of companies failing with them. I'll bet the strike rate is better for Erlang companies.
  - jshen 12y ago
    Il bet that the choice of language has no impact on success.
    - codygman 12y ago
      What about whitespace? Do you think choosing it or brainfuck has an impact on success?
      - jshen 12y ago
        Not relevant. I'm sure there are bad choices, but the difference between Go and Haskell is probably negligible or in Go's favor.
        lmm 12y ago
        So you think Go is a better language because companies that use Go are more likely to be successful because... Go is a better language? That's just circular reasoning. Do you have any numbers or experience here? (In my limited experience I've seen a 100% success rate for companies that use Haskell and a 0% success rate for companies that use Go, though as you can imagine I don't have a statistically valid sample size)
        jshen 12y ago
        Right, there is no good data at all suggesting that languages like Haskell are better for teams. Yet we are constantly served peoples overly confident opinions that they are.
        tome 12y ago
        We are? Links please.
        codygman 12y ago
        As someone with experience in both languages I disagree. Try parsing json in both languages and you'll see a difference. Composing functions that use channels simply isn't possible in Go (please prove me wrong). Go gives you kind of safe concurrency, Haskell gives you actual safe concurrency.

pjmlp 12y ago

> If languages like Haskell and Erlang gave a competitive advantage, wouldn't we see companies which used them succeeding over those that don't? Like these? https://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_in_industry https://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_in_industry https://www.erlang-solutions.com/industries https://www.erlang-solutions.com/industries https://ocaml.org/learn/companies.html https://ocaml.org/learn/companies.html http://fsharp.org/testimonials/ http://fsharp.org/testimonials/

codygman 12y ago
The stock price of Standard Chartered is 939 GBX currently.