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Why not just learn the CS, Algorithms, and Data Structures fundamentals that theses tests are looking for instead of gaming the system? There are some intervie

by yzzxy 12y ago

Why not just learn the CS, Algorithms, and Data Structures fundamentals that theses tests are looking for instead of gaming the system? There are some interview processes that are unfair, pedantic, or irrelevant to be sure (manhole covers come to mind), but most of the questions are at least founded in basic CS knowledge. A good analogy is the math section of the SAT: some people can take the SAT naturally and understand the question models it follows on the first try. Others will go to tutors and memorize how to solve them, essentially programming themselves for different word questions. Which group do you think will have a more enjoyable and valuable experience at a difficult college that requires a high SAT score? It seems (to me) that it would be better to acquire the actual skills so you can improve yourself and do the job rather than memorizing problems and solutions. Even if you believe your job doesn't involve CS directly (webdev, for instance), a more holistic understanding of computer science is sure to benefit you in understand how and why the APIs and frameworks you use were designed, and how you can write clean and performant code. If your problem is performing in front of engineers on a whiteboard, and not the theory, then you don't need to practice questions, you need to do mock interviews.

wh-uws 12y ago
Yzzxy that is litterally and exactly what the group is about. While there are some shortcuts they largely rely on having seen a problem before. Many top tier interviewers can ask you problems you can't have seen before and then all you will have left is your though process. The group is about exposing yourself to lots of problems to pick up tricks and shortcuts but also to learn about the underlying theories and thought processes that created them as well and sharing that knowledge with others on the journey as well.
- yzzxy 12y ago
  > While there are some shortcuts they largely rely on having seen a problem before. I'm arguing that this is largely not true. These problems are grounded in basic CS[0] problems - implementing stacks, linked lists, standard sorts, or understanding how to solve a basic problem in a certain O time. They are not "interview problems" that recruiters invent and pass around to one anther, they are real problems with historical backgrounds and well-discussed solutions. I'm not saying your group shouldn't exist, I'm saying I disagree with your stated method: > expose yourself to enough problems and solutions Instead, expose yourself to computer science. Few interview questions (for entry-midlevel coding jobs) are novel, almost all of them (that I've seen) are just exemplifications of well-known CS problems[1] that you will encounter in an intro algorithms textbook. The others tend to be domain specific and can't really be studied for anyway (write a basic X in framework Y). There's no reason to frame this learning as interview training beyond when you state the benefits of it for marketing[2]. There's no magical distinction between programming and interviewing, there are just some abstract topics that happen to be tested by interviewers and are also used in real life. [0] Not programming, computer science [1] When I say problem here it means something slightly different than a test question. The definition is closer to "a research question that was once, and may still be, unsolved." [2] Don't take this as an implication that you should be running a business, marketing is just part of making a good thing. It's understanding your users.
iends 12y ago
High SAT scores are not predictive of success at college, and neither are hard interviews questions predictive of being a successful developer.
- yzzxy 12y ago
  I may have not articulated this very well: Both groups in my metaphor (those who naturally understand the SAT questions from learning mathematical concepts, and those who are tutored on known SAT questions) were meant to be among the high scorers on the test. This would imply that SAT scores will not predict real performance, and the same implications would apply to job interview questions that are gamed in a similar fashion.
- stax012 12y ago
  "Those schools that attract students with a wide range of SAT scores generally have higher correlations between the scores and first-year grades." --http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/WhosCounting/story?id=98373&page=1 http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/WhosCounting/story?id=98373...

by yzzxy 12y ago

wh-uws 12y ago

Yzzxy that is litterally and exactly what the group is about. While there are some shortcuts they largely rely on having seen a problem before. Many top tier interviewers can ask you problems you can't have seen before and then all you will have left is your though process. The group is about exposing yourself to lots of problems to pick up tricks and shortcuts but also to learn about the underlying theories and thought processes that created them as well and sharing that knowledge with others on the journey as well.

yzzxy 12y ago
> While there are some shortcuts they largely rely on having seen a problem before. I'm arguing that this is largely not true. These problems are grounded in basic CS[0] problems - implementing stacks, linked lists, standard sorts, or understanding how to solve a basic problem in a certain O time. They are not "interview problems" that recruiters invent and pass around to one anther, they are real problems with historical backgrounds and well-discussed solutions. I'm not saying your group shouldn't exist, I'm saying I disagree with your stated method: > expose yourself to enough problems and solutions Instead, expose yourself to computer science. Few interview questions (for entry-midlevel coding jobs) are novel, almost all of them (that I've seen) are just exemplifications of well-known CS problems[1] that you will encounter in an intro algorithms textbook. The others tend to be domain specific and can't really be studied for anyway (write a basic X in framework Y). There's no reason to frame this learning as interview training beyond when you state the benefits of it for marketing[2]. There's no magical distinction between programming and interviewing, there are just some abstract topics that happen to be tested by interviewers and are also used in real life. [0] Not programming, computer science [1] When I say problem here it means something slightly different than a test question. The definition is closer to "a research question that was once, and may still be, unsolved." [2] Don't take this as an implication that you should be running a business, marketing is just part of making a good thing. It's understanding your users.

iends 12y ago

High SAT scores are not predictive of success at college, and neither are hard interviews questions predictive of being a successful developer.

yzzxy 12y ago
I may have not articulated this very well: Both groups in my metaphor (those who naturally understand the SAT questions from learning mathematical concepts, and those who are tutored on known SAT questions) were meant to be among the high scorers on the test. This would imply that SAT scores will not predict real performance, and the same implications would apply to job interview questions that are gamed in a similar fashion.
stax012 12y ago
"Those schools that attract students with a wide range of SAT scores generally have higher correlations between the scores and first-year grades." --http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/WhosCounting/story?id=98373&page=1 http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/WhosCounting/story?id=98373...