5 ms·

The courts of public opinion, history or even the actual international courts are poor ones. The Nazis are unique in the treatment they got. Many of the judgeme

by netsp 17y ago

The courts of public opinion, history or even the actual international courts are poor ones. The Nazis are unique in the treatment they got. Many of the judgements do not contain the consistency to be called justice. The Nazis lost to deeply injured enemies, Europe, the Soviet Union & the US. They were clearly proven to be malicious. That is they were evil in theory, intention, strategy, tactic, rhetoric, practice and in practical outcome. Communists tended to have at least some of these which were palatable. This leaves the possibility that they have good intentions, got waylaid, failed, etc. Nazis brought terrible suffering and disgrace to their own people and were recognised by Germans in this way. But this is extremely unusual and it is a consequence of regime change. Look at Turkey and the Armenian genocide. Modern Turks do not believe in it and it was almost 100 years ago. You can't be friendly with Turkey and bring it up. Communism has not really fallen in the same way Nazism and Fascism fell. Even Russia is still really a descendant of the Soviet Union. The places that do consider communists similarly to fascists are those places that felt colonised by them.

lionhearted 17y ago
This makes sense. Here's the four I got from you: 1. History is fairly inconsistent. 2. The Nazis were across-the-board evil, whereas the Communists at least pretended to have some decent intentions. 3. The big one which makes sense - the governments and descendants of the fascist areas owned up to what they did and denounced it. Most places don't. 4. Finally, no real theatrics or drama at the end. Communism just slowly eroded and died, there were no cities sacked or surrenders signed. Good points: #3 was the biggest one I hadn't considered enough. That said, I've traveled around the world some, have friends who had parents in the Communist Party, and have an older acquaintance whose family were Polish resistance fighters to the Nazis later turned black marketers/Polish underground. Pretty much everyone with exposure to Communism thinks it was a pretty awful thing, on pretty much all levels. Berlin's got to be the most obvious example: You can walk through old, pre-WWII Berlin neighborhoods (beautiful), Allied post-WWII Berlin neighborhoods (pretty nice), and Soviet post-WWII neighborhoods (very ugly, foreboding, and dreadful aside from what the citizens have made of it recently). It's a pretty incredible contrast. But the way you outlined it makes sense - great points, and thanks for shedding some light.
- catzaa 17y ago
  Although this is HN and we should not discuss politics, just a few points. Firstly, the Nazis may have been bad – but the treatment of post-WW1 Germany was bad and a causing factor of WW2. The Treaty of Versailles ensured in effect that there will be another war in Europe. I think that Germany was uniquely the only country in the 20th century to receive such a hard “punishment” (both economically and culturally) when they lost the First World War.
- netsp 17y ago
  Not just history. Actual international courts are extremely inconsistent. They are basically a way of judging losers with a little bit more legitimacy then just hanging the enemy king. War crime charges as they are legally defined could probably be proved about any leader of a country at war, nt just Omar Al Bashir or Saddam Hussein. Almost certainly George Bush (and many other recent world leaders) would at least meet the criteria for trial. If a domestic criminal justice system functioned like the international one, it would be deemed as non-existent. We just do not have an international system, but we pretend we do.

by netsp 17y ago

lionhearted 17y ago

This makes sense. Here's the four I got from you: 1. History is fairly inconsistent. 2. The Nazis were across-the-board evil, whereas the Communists at least pretended to have some decent intentions. 3. The big one which makes sense - the governments and descendants of the fascist areas owned up to what they did and denounced it. Most places don't. 4. Finally, no real theatrics or drama at the end. Communism just slowly eroded and died, there were no cities sacked or surrenders signed. Good points: #3 was the biggest one I hadn't considered enough. That said, I've traveled around the world some, have friends who had parents in the Communist Party, and have an older acquaintance whose family were Polish resistance fighters to the Nazis later turned black marketers/Polish underground. Pretty much everyone with exposure to Communism thinks it was a pretty awful thing, on pretty much all levels. Berlin's got to be the most obvious example: You can walk through old, pre-WWII Berlin neighborhoods (beautiful), Allied post-WWII Berlin neighborhoods (pretty nice), and Soviet post-WWII neighborhoods (very ugly, foreboding, and dreadful aside from what the citizens have made of it recently). It's a pretty incredible contrast. But the way you outlined it makes sense - great points, and thanks for shedding some light.

catzaa 17y ago
Although this is HN and we should not discuss politics, just a few points. Firstly, the Nazis may have been bad – but the treatment of post-WW1 Germany was bad and a causing factor of WW2. The Treaty of Versailles ensured in effect that there will be another war in Europe. I think that Germany was uniquely the only country in the 20th century to receive such a hard “punishment” (both economically and culturally) when they lost the First World War.
netsp 17y ago
Not just history. Actual international courts are extremely inconsistent. They are basically a way of judging losers with a little bit more legitimacy then just hanging the enemy king. War crime charges as they are legally defined could probably be proved about any leader of a country at war, nt just Omar Al Bashir or Saddam Hussein. Almost certainly George Bush (and many other recent world leaders) would at least meet the criteria for trial. If a domestic criminal justice system functioned like the international one, it would be deemed as non-existent. We just do not have an international system, but we pretend we do.