4 ms·

Even if a diet choice is voluntary, if the choice is grounded in religious or ethical reasons then it is an infringement of personal freedom to deny that. Yes,

by rudolf0 12y ago

Even if a diet choice is voluntary, if the choice is grounded in religious or ethical reasons then it is an infringement of personal freedom to deny that. Yes, prison itself is an infringement of freedom, but some believe that certain freedoms should remain permanent.

zanny 12y ago
Well obviously the prisons disagree, and since they are fundamentally rooted in the denial of freedom then I don't think anyone involved in the prison industrial complex (even in Sweden) is going to care to hear arguments about how they should be nicer to prisoners.
- DanBC 12y ago
  http://www.prisonersabroad.org.uk/uploads/documents/prisoners/Food_and_diets.pdf http://www.prisonersabroad.org.uk/uploads/documents/prisoner... There are plenty of people workig on makig prisons nicer for prisoners. This includes respecting their religion (as guided by the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR).
Alupis 12y ago
Well, religious diets are arguably not voluntary. I'd say it's far different to allow a Kosher meal than it is to plan, purchase, prep, and serve a special diet to one inmate who has a preference of diet because that is how they chose to eat on the outside.
- rudolf0 12y ago
  I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Religious diets are not voluntary, but choice of religion is voluntary. Vegetarian/vegan diets adhering to an ethical philosophy are not voluntary, but choosing to accept an animal rights philosophy is voluntary. Either both are a choice or neither are a choice, depending on how you define your terms. Now, if the vegan diet was for personal taste or even for health reasons (as long as there was no significant health impact from going off of it), then it's a different story.
  - Alupis 12y ago
    > Religious diets are not voluntary, but choice of religion is voluntary. Agreed > Vegetarian/vegan diets adhering to an ethical philosophy are not voluntary, but choosing to accept an animal rights philosophy is voluntary. Not agreed. Your right to accept certain philosophies while in prion is forfeited upon conviction. This means, if you are not eating meat because you simply feel it's wrong -- well, the prison has no obligation to oblige you. If you are not eating meat because of your religion, that is different. Sure - one may "convert" to a new religion to obtain a certain preferred diet, but that is still applying the rule evenly and fairly. > Now, if the vegan diet was for personal taste or even for health reasons (as long as there was no significant health impact from going off of it), then it's a different story. This would be the foundation for an awful law which would be enforced with bias and randomness. How do you actually determine if a diet is being followed for pure taste reasoning, or if it's something based on personal ethics? You cannot, and therefore this cannot be a rule. Rules and laws must be based on a foundation that can be applied evenly and fairly to all, not left up to judgement by a sometimes-in-a-nice-mood-sometimes-in-a-bad-mood warden.
    - DanBC 12y ago
      > Not agreed. Your right to accept certain philosophies while in prion is forfeited upon conviction. There are a bunch of international covenants and agreements that disagree with you. This document talks specifically about food: http://www.prisonersabroad.org.uk/uploads/documents/prisoners/Food_and_diets.pdf http://www.prisonersabroad.org.uk/uploads/documents/prisoner... Your misrepresentations of the reasons some people are vegan or vegetarian are so severe it makes the conversation pointless. Some people have beliefs about eatig meat that are equivalent to religious belief.
      - Alupis 12y ago
        The document you linked to does not protect personal choice of diet. > 2.3.9 European Prison Rules > See para (1.2.4) above for an explanation of the European Prison Rules. Rule 22 states “Prisoners shall be provided with a nutritious diet that takes into account their ... religion, culture ..." > 2.4 Vegetarian and Vegan diets > In some countries, the food provided to all prisoners may be vegetarian (non-vegetarians may have to buy meat). So the inverse is true with prisons that serve meat. > Receiving vegetarian or vegan meals in prison may not be an easy process. In some countries, you may be required to show that your request for a vegetarian or vegan diet is based on ethical or religious beliefs. Again, the EU portion of this document does not protect ethical beliefs, only religious ones.

by rudolf0 12y ago

zanny 12y ago

Well obviously the prisons disagree, and since they are fundamentally rooted in the denial of freedom then I don't think anyone involved in the prison industrial complex (even in Sweden) is going to care to hear arguments about how they should be nicer to prisoners.

DanBC 12y ago
http://www.prisonersabroad.org.uk/uploads/documents/prisoners/Food_and_diets.pdf http://www.prisonersabroad.org.uk/uploads/documents/prisoner... There are plenty of people workig on makig prisons nicer for prisoners. This includes respecting their religion (as guided by the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR).

Alupis 12y ago

Well, religious diets are arguably not voluntary. I'd say it's far different to allow a Kosher meal than it is to plan, purchase, prep, and serve a special diet to one inmate who has a preference of diet because that is how they chose to eat on the outside.

rudolf0 12y ago
I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Religious diets are not voluntary, but choice of religion is voluntary. Vegetarian/vegan diets adhering to an ethical philosophy are not voluntary, but choosing to accept an animal rights philosophy is voluntary. Either both are a choice or neither are a choice, depending on how you define your terms. Now, if the vegan diet was for personal taste or even for health reasons (as long as there was no significant health impact from going off of it), then it's a different story.
- Alupis 12y ago
  > Religious diets are not voluntary, but choice of religion is voluntary. Agreed > Vegetarian/vegan diets adhering to an ethical philosophy are not voluntary, but choosing to accept an animal rights philosophy is voluntary. Not agreed. Your right to accept certain philosophies while in prion is forfeited upon conviction. This means, if you are not eating meat because you simply feel it's wrong -- well, the prison has no obligation to oblige you. If you are not eating meat because of your religion, that is different. Sure - one may "convert" to a new religion to obtain a certain preferred diet, but that is still applying the rule evenly and fairly. > Now, if the vegan diet was for personal taste or even for health reasons (as long as there was no significant health impact from going off of it), then it's a different story. This would be the foundation for an awful law which would be enforced with bias and randomness. How do you actually determine if a diet is being followed for pure taste reasoning, or if it's something based on personal ethics? You cannot, and therefore this cannot be a rule. Rules and laws must be based on a foundation that can be applied evenly and fairly to all, not left up to judgement by a sometimes-in-a-nice-mood-sometimes-in-a-bad-mood warden.
  - DanBC 12y ago
    > Not agreed. Your right to accept certain philosophies while in prion is forfeited upon conviction. There are a bunch of international covenants and agreements that disagree with you. This document talks specifically about food: http://www.prisonersabroad.org.uk/uploads/documents/prisoners/Food_and_diets.pdf http://www.prisonersabroad.org.uk/uploads/documents/prisoner... Your misrepresentations of the reasons some people are vegan or vegetarian are so severe it makes the conversation pointless. Some people have beliefs about eatig meat that are equivalent to religious belief.
    - Alupis 12y ago
      The document you linked to does not protect personal choice of diet. > 2.3.9 European Prison Rules > See para (1.2.4) above for an explanation of the European Prison Rules. Rule 22 states “Prisoners shall be provided with a nutritious diet that takes into account their ... religion, culture ..." > 2.4 Vegetarian and Vegan diets > In some countries, the food provided to all prisoners may be vegetarian (non-vegetarians may have to buy meat). So the inverse is true with prisons that serve meat. > Receiving vegetarian or vegan meals in prison may not be an easy process. In some countries, you may be required to show that your request for a vegetarian or vegan diet is based on ethical or religious beliefs. Again, the EU portion of this document does not protect ethical beliefs, only religious ones.