6 ms·

China celebrates 60 years

25 points by mapleoin 17y ago

mapleoin 17y ago
I especially like the seventh picture. The guy should probably also put a bubble level on their heads.
yannis 17y ago
I watched it on TV. Highly impressive, perhaps more impressive than the opening ceremony of the Olympics. The pictures actually don't do it justice to the marches. I wish my code was as neat as this ;)
- jerryji 17y ago
  The march _is_ neat, but not very creative, I wish my code were more creative than that ;)
  - gaius 17y ago
    Well, exactly. Similar regimes have been holding mass parades like this since the 1930s. Still, I suppose it's nice to see tanks in Tiananmen Square without anyone getting killed in the process.
  - jhancock 17y ago
    I hope your app is creative, but your code is readable ;).
mahmud 17y ago
The title should be "the ruling Communist Party of China celebrates 60 years in power". China, a sovereign entity, existed for far longer than that. Still, a magnificent show and an epic display of might, the likes of which only China could pull off. [edit: Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwi_2GCthx0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwi_2GCthx0 ]
- TheElder 17y ago
  Here is a better quality video (in substance and resolution): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTCSUDovxRw&NR=1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTCSUDovxRw&NR=1 2nd video: http://vimeo.com/6853452 http://vimeo.com/6853452
- jhancock 17y ago
  I don't think "the ruling Communist Party of China celebrates 60 years in power" would be a good title. The current governance of China is communist in name only and has morphed substantially multiple times over those 60 years.
  - gaius 17y ago
    Agreed - the ruling totalitarian government would be more accurate.
    - jhancock 17y ago
      I've lived in Shanghai for 10 years. Very little that Beijing tells Shanghai to do has an impact on daily life there. For the most part, Shanghai controls Shanghai. Governance in China is fragmented, hierarchical, and networked. I built a large workflow system for the Shanghai gov in 2001. To build such a system, I had to understand decision processes, chains of command, etc. If there was an "org chart" I never saw it, but had to piece it together through inputs from many government departments. The structures that exist follow patterns well understood by those in power (and to varying degree by many in society). These processes are more complex then Western business or government structure and rarely dictatorial. Decision takes a long time to incubate while various interests align. Once consensus is reached, they move forward in lock-step. An outsider may view these actions as the result of a dictatorial process. I can assure you they are not.
      - gaius 17y ago
        I'm curious - could you for instance walk the streets of Shanghai in a t-shirt openly critical of the government? 'Cos people in London do it all the time...
miked 17y ago
My father-in-law was a mid-level Communist Party official (photo editor of the People's "Liberation" Army newspaper) who knew Mao personally. Years later Mao's people threw him in a concentration camp for "rightists" because he had made a joke about the Great Helmsman. When they ran out of cooking oil they would cook his food in used motor oil. The man they tortured and forced to rat him out never recovered from the shame. My wife and I had dinner with his daughter in Beijing two years ago. She still carries the shame for her father, even today. A little gift from Mao that keeps on giving. They were the lucky ones, of course. The consensus estimate is that 70 million human beings have died so far during the CCP's reign of terror, mostly from starvation. My wife spent much of her youth hungry. She and her friends used to pull the stingers out of honeybees to get a bit of sweetness in their lives. The things little girls do, huh? Not much terror these days of course, unless you're Tibetan, Falun Gong, or an enemy of the state. The strange thing for me, when walking around China, is that the monster's face is on the money. Statues of him are still common. He's the worst murderer who ever lived, and you have to look at him when buying a rose. Isn't life interesting?
- est 17y ago
  > The consensus estimate is that 70 million human beings have died so far during the CCP's reign of terror, mostly from starvation Yeah, but it's hard to imagine what China actually like in pre-P.R.C times. It's not "end the war, install democracy and go prosper" that easy for an ancient civilization to turn modern. Mao has his faults, and underestimated contributions, but what's more important is whether current and succeeding politicians will learn from history.
- lionhearted 17y ago
  > They were the lucky ones, of course. The consensus estimate is that 70 million human beings have died so far during the CCP's reign of terror, mostly from starvation. My wife spent much of her youth hungry. She and her friends used to pull the stingers out of honeybees to get a bit of sweetness in their lives. The things little girls do, huh? I dated a Chinese girl for 3 and 1/2 years whose father was sent to a labor camp for a lot of her childhood. I really don't understand how the Communists don't have the same reputation and stigma of the Nazis. They killed over twice as many people, most of them civilians, and did it for twice as long. They ran their countries into the ground in pretty much all meaningful measures, destroying civilizations well known for science, commerce, and innovation. They accomplished almost nothing of value, in any of the areas mankind finds valuable. And they're treated with a mild disdain, but nothing like the Third Reich, where they probably deserve even worse treatment. If anyone doesn't know who Deng Xiaoping is, it's worth reading a little bit about him. He was probably one of the most important and good politicians of the last 100 years. He helped lead China out of the Communist mess they were in, declaring, "It doesn't matter what color the cat is as long as it catches the mouse." Was imprisoned for a while due to his views before taking over and putting China back on the path to being a global power with healthy, happy citizens. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deng_Xiaoping http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deng_Xiaoping But as a casual historian, I'm still baffled why the Communists don't have the same or worse of a rep than the Nazis - input from knowledgeable people is welcome.
abalashov 17y ago
The irony of the Empire State Building being lit in red and yellow in deference to the commemoration is not lost. In 2009, China is Maoist and "Communist" in name only; in fact, much of the awe-inspiring artifacts and sophisticated technologies on display in the parade are principally features of a >= Deng Xiaoping environment - well, maybe starting with Hu Yaoban. Meanwhile, in 1949 when the authentic Maoists seized power, the US provided entirely nontrivial military aid and financial assistance to the retreating Kuomintang (nationalist) government, and did much to try to suffocate the revolution in its cradle after the PLA did seize power. Now the US salutes them (and warmly encourages them to maybe continue buying Treasuries... please?), and meanwhile there is nothing in the faintest bit "Communist" about the establishment, save for the nomenclature and iconic imagery of the incumbent power structure.
- est 17y ago
  > much of the awe-inspiring artifacts and sophisticated technologies on display in the parade are principally features of a >= Deng Xiaoping environment - well, maybe starting with Hu Yaoban. Sorry, but most of the ass-kicking weapons were from Mao's. Deng? He buys foreign things and never make ones themselves.
  - abalashov 17y ago
    True, but I was not really referring to the ass-kicking weapons, but rather the features of the modern Chinese economic boom seen in the background (not literally - I'm talking about the all-around context and its aesthetic ligaments).
  - varjag 17y ago
    There were precious little weapons originated under Mao regime. They were either of Soviet manufacture, or straightforward copies of Soviet designs. The (often brilliant) Chinese engineers were instead plowing paddy fields in correction villages.
- papersmith 17y ago
  After the faction-change and Sino-Soviet split, the US actually sold weapons to PRC. It lasted until 1989 where the Tiananmen Square protest ended it all with a PR disaster. Ironically PRC has more Black Hawk helicopters than Taiwan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UH-60_Black_Hawk#Military_operators http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UH-60_Black_Hawk#Military_opera... Also not sure if anyone noticed some of the choppers during the parade were Eurocopter Dauphins. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocopter_Dauphin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocopter_Dauphin
poutine 17y ago
Very spectacular but the normal Beijing people were kept well away from the parade. Like many things it does this display demonstrates the weakness of the regime rather than the strength. It needs such a display to attempt to show to its people (and in a smaller part to the world) that the Communist party is powerful and everlasting. That the Communist party brings great face to China through power and prosperity. China is on the edge of the precipice. Especially with this recent economic turmoil. While they live in an authoritarian society, Chinese people are not sheep. There are far too many have nots and the memory of standing up and deposing the government is still in many peoples minds.
beilabs 17y ago
Wonder how long it will be before Hacker News is blocked in China....

25 points by mapleoin 17y ago

I especially like the seventh picture. The guy should probably also put a bubble level on their heads.

I watched it on TV. Highly impressive, perhaps more impressive than the opening ceremony of the Olympics. The pictures actually don't do it justice to the marches. I wish my code was as neat as this ;)

jerryji 17y ago
The march _is_ neat, but not very creative, I wish my code were more creative than that ;)
- gaius 17y ago
  Well, exactly. Similar regimes have been holding mass parades like this since the 1930s. Still, I suppose it's nice to see tanks in Tiananmen Square without anyone getting killed in the process.
- jhancock 17y ago
  I hope your app is creative, but your code is readable ;).

mahmud 17y ago

The title should be "the ruling Communist Party of China celebrates 60 years in power". China, a sovereign entity, existed for far longer than that. Still, a magnificent show and an epic display of might, the likes of which only China could pull off. [edit: Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwi_2GCthx0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwi_2GCthx0 ]

TheElder 17y ago
Here is a better quality video (in substance and resolution): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTCSUDovxRw&NR=1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTCSUDovxRw&NR=1 2nd video: http://vimeo.com/6853452 http://vimeo.com/6853452
jhancock 17y ago
I don't think "the ruling Communist Party of China celebrates 60 years in power" would be a good title. The current governance of China is communist in name only and has morphed substantially multiple times over those 60 years.
- gaius 17y ago
  Agreed - the ruling totalitarian government would be more accurate.
  - jhancock 17y ago
    I've lived in Shanghai for 10 years. Very little that Beijing tells Shanghai to do has an impact on daily life there. For the most part, Shanghai controls Shanghai. Governance in China is fragmented, hierarchical, and networked. I built a large workflow system for the Shanghai gov in 2001. To build such a system, I had to understand decision processes, chains of command, etc. If there was an "org chart" I never saw it, but had to piece it together through inputs from many government departments. The structures that exist follow patterns well understood by those in power (and to varying degree by many in society). These processes are more complex then Western business or government structure and rarely dictatorial. Decision takes a long time to incubate while various interests align. Once consensus is reached, they move forward in lock-step. An outsider may view these actions as the result of a dictatorial process. I can assure you they are not.
    - gaius 17y ago
      I'm curious - could you for instance walk the streets of Shanghai in a t-shirt openly critical of the government? 'Cos people in London do it all the time...

miked 17y ago

My father-in-law was a mid-level Communist Party official (photo editor of the People's "Liberation" Army newspaper) who knew Mao personally. Years later Mao's people threw him in a concentration camp for "rightists" because he had made a joke about the Great Helmsman. When they ran out of cooking oil they would cook his food in used motor oil. The man they tortured and forced to rat him out never recovered from the shame. My wife and I had dinner with his daughter in Beijing two years ago. She still carries the shame for her father, even today. A little gift from Mao that keeps on giving. They were the lucky ones, of course. The consensus estimate is that 70 million human beings have died so far during the CCP's reign of terror, mostly from starvation. My wife spent much of her youth hungry. She and her friends used to pull the stingers out of honeybees to get a bit of sweetness in their lives. The things little girls do, huh? Not much terror these days of course, unless you're Tibetan, Falun Gong, or an enemy of the state. The strange thing for me, when walking around China, is that the monster's face is on the money. Statues of him are still common. He's the worst murderer who ever lived, and you have to look at him when buying a rose. Isn't life interesting?

est 17y ago
> The consensus estimate is that 70 million human beings have died so far during the CCP's reign of terror, mostly from starvation Yeah, but it's hard to imagine what China actually like in pre-P.R.C times. It's not "end the war, install democracy and go prosper" that easy for an ancient civilization to turn modern. Mao has his faults, and underestimated contributions, but what's more important is whether current and succeeding politicians will learn from history.
lionhearted 17y ago
> They were the lucky ones, of course. The consensus estimate is that 70 million human beings have died so far during the CCP's reign of terror, mostly from starvation. My wife spent much of her youth hungry. She and her friends used to pull the stingers out of honeybees to get a bit of sweetness in their lives. The things little girls do, huh? I dated a Chinese girl for 3 and 1/2 years whose father was sent to a labor camp for a lot of her childhood. I really don't understand how the Communists don't have the same reputation and stigma of the Nazis. They killed over twice as many people, most of them civilians, and did it for twice as long. They ran their countries into the ground in pretty much all meaningful measures, destroying civilizations well known for science, commerce, and innovation. They accomplished almost nothing of value, in any of the areas mankind finds valuable. And they're treated with a mild disdain, but nothing like the Third Reich, where they probably deserve even worse treatment. If anyone doesn't know who Deng Xiaoping is, it's worth reading a little bit about him. He was probably one of the most important and good politicians of the last 100 years. He helped lead China out of the Communist mess they were in, declaring, "It doesn't matter what color the cat is as long as it catches the mouse." Was imprisoned for a while due to his views before taking over and putting China back on the path to being a global power with healthy, happy citizens. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deng_Xiaoping http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deng_Xiaoping But as a casual historian, I'm still baffled why the Communists don't have the same or worse of a rep than the Nazis - input from knowledgeable people is welcome.

abalashov 17y ago

The irony of the Empire State Building being lit in red and yellow in deference to the commemoration is not lost. In 2009, China is Maoist and "Communist" in name only; in fact, much of the awe-inspiring artifacts and sophisticated technologies on display in the parade are principally features of a >= Deng Xiaoping environment - well, maybe starting with Hu Yaoban. Meanwhile, in 1949 when the authentic Maoists seized power, the US provided entirely nontrivial military aid and financial assistance to the retreating Kuomintang (nationalist) government, and did much to try to suffocate the revolution in its cradle after the PLA did seize power. Now the US salutes them (and warmly encourages them to maybe continue buying Treasuries... please?), and meanwhile there is nothing in the faintest bit "Communist" about the establishment, save for the nomenclature and iconic imagery of the incumbent power structure.

est 17y ago
> much of the awe-inspiring artifacts and sophisticated technologies on display in the parade are principally features of a >= Deng Xiaoping environment - well, maybe starting with Hu Yaoban. Sorry, but most of the ass-kicking weapons were from Mao's. Deng? He buys foreign things and never make ones themselves.
- abalashov 17y ago
  True, but I was not really referring to the ass-kicking weapons, but rather the features of the modern Chinese economic boom seen in the background (not literally - I'm talking about the all-around context and its aesthetic ligaments).
- varjag 17y ago
  There were precious little weapons originated under Mao regime. They were either of Soviet manufacture, or straightforward copies of Soviet designs. The (often brilliant) Chinese engineers were instead plowing paddy fields in correction villages.
papersmith 17y ago
After the faction-change and Sino-Soviet split, the US actually sold weapons to PRC. It lasted until 1989 where the Tiananmen Square protest ended it all with a PR disaster. Ironically PRC has more Black Hawk helicopters than Taiwan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UH-60_Black_Hawk#Military_operators http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UH-60_Black_Hawk#Military_opera... Also not sure if anyone noticed some of the choppers during the parade were Eurocopter Dauphins. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocopter_Dauphin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocopter_Dauphin

poutine 17y ago

Very spectacular but the normal Beijing people were kept well away from the parade. Like many things it does this display demonstrates the weakness of the regime rather than the strength. It needs such a display to attempt to show to its people (and in a smaller part to the world) that the Communist party is powerful and everlasting. That the Communist party brings great face to China through power and prosperity. China is on the edge of the precipice. Especially with this recent economic turmoil. While they live in an authoritarian society, Chinese people are not sheep. There are far too many have nots and the memory of standing up and deposing the government is still in many peoples minds.

beilabs 17y ago

Wonder how long it will be before Hacker News is blocked in China....