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That doesn't work in the real world for most people. At my Day Job, I use Language X with version Y for everything. I use Library Z and T only. Oh, and I can us

That doesn't work in the real world for most people. At my Day Job, I use Language X with version Y for everything. I use Library Z and T only. Oh, and I can use ancient language B as well but I cannot use any 3rd party code with B. You will use version control method G. Any attempt to deviate from that is not permitted because it leads to compatibility issues with the rest of the codebase & it reduces the ability of other programmers to work efficiently on it. I suspect many programmers operate under similar restrictions.

vinceguidry 12y ago
I mean, if your job comprises only tasks and no responsibility, then your job then is to either demonstrate enough value so as to convincingly ask for responsibilities or hop around until you find someone that will give you the latitude you need. I've worked three jobs in the last year where I had a lot of flexibility in this regard. And I enjoyed it when I was freelancing too. The world's a lot bigger than the little bit of it you're seeing now. Get out there and see some of it.
- opendais 12y ago
  > I mean, if your job comprises only tasks and no responsibility, then your job then is to either demonstrate enough value so as to convincingly ask for responsibilities or hop around until you find someone that will give you the latitude you need. > I've worked three jobs in the last year where I had a lot of flexibility in this regard. And I enjoyed it when I was freelancing too. The world's a lot bigger than the little bit of it you're seeing now. Get out there and see some of it. Ah, the patronizing tone of someone without a clue. Some of us enjoy working on large, important things that need standards. I'm responsible for millions of dollars of revenue and financial transactions. That means I'm going to be conservative 'cause, y'know, money. Many, many people work in situations like that. The majority of programmers aren't web developers with one-off projects they mostly do by themselves.
  - vinceguidry 12y ago
    Are you seriously trying to tell me that for some people it's impossible to have career goals because your job won't let you?
    - opendais 12y ago
      Did I say a career goal? No? Maybe y'know, you shouldn't put words in people's mouths and actually read what was written. I'm telling you the way you value/put things is specific to you and a smaller percentage of the programmer population than you imply. It works for web developers working on small projects. It doesn't work in larger team environments where having 90% of the developers needing to learn X to maintain the project is a noticeable impact. > Ultimately this is why I don't take any of my side projects seriously anymore, and if there's something I want to learn, I'll find a way to get paid for it. Side projects should be taken seriously because people aren't going to rearrange their careers to scratch itches like "I want to see if I like Django better than RoR". If that falls under the category of "career goal" for you, we honestly should stop talking to each other because we operate on two very different levels. We are never going to agree. The problem becomes when you [like the OP] try to apply your limited world view as a universal truth. One of my side projects that I run for fun and setup in a couple weekends generates thousands of dollars a year which I then reinvest into my side projects to amuse myself. It is a hobby that pays for all of my computer-related hobbies. So when people like you and the OP dismiss them, I'm amused because I realize I can't take either of you seriously. You don't consider the possibility that you are wrong when told you are mistaken but instead resort to claiming I don't know what I'm talking about. I know another developer whose side project generates non-negligible revenues and consulting gigs. So when you said can't take your side projects seriously to reinforce the OP's point, you reinforce this idea that side projects should not be taken seriously.
      - vinceguidry 12y ago
        > Side projects should be taken seriously because people aren't going to rearrange their careers to scratch itches like "I want to see if I like Django better than RoR". If that falls under the category of "career goal" for you, we honestly should stop talking to each other because we operate on two very different levels. We are never going to agree. I guess you're right, we're never going to agree. The choice of platform to specialize in is in my opinion a very very important career decision you have to make, because the switching costs are greater than we're going to see. Platform familiarity has bought me 90% of the flexibility I have at my job. I got to be that familiar because I happen to really like Rails. I got to learn Rails because I got someone to pay me to learn it. At one point, a career goal of mine was to "get paid full time to work with Rails." Now that I've achieved that goal, I have bigger and better ones. I don't know what level you are operating at, but my new goals involve putting together a cohesive team that can knock out projects really fast, followed by starting a company with the experience gained from accomplishing the former. > One of my side projects that I run for fun and setup in a couple weekends generates thousands of dollars a year... Thousands a year? I just don't get spending that kind of time for that little of a return. I'd rather roll that effort into being a better coder and the best way I've seen to do that is to work on projects bigger than yourself, that bring lots of people with different talents in to build something that much more interesting and viable. If I just wanted a few thousand more, I'd ask for a raise. Just because it's non-negligible doesn't mean it's worth my time.

vinceguidry 12y ago

I mean, if your job comprises only tasks and no responsibility, then your job then is to either demonstrate enough value so as to convincingly ask for responsibilities or hop around until you find someone that will give you the latitude you need. I've worked three jobs in the last year where I had a lot of flexibility in this regard. And I enjoyed it when I was freelancing too. The world's a lot bigger than the little bit of it you're seeing now. Get out there and see some of it.

opendais 12y ago
> I mean, if your job comprises only tasks and no responsibility, then your job then is to either demonstrate enough value so as to convincingly ask for responsibilities or hop around until you find someone that will give you the latitude you need. > I've worked three jobs in the last year where I had a lot of flexibility in this regard. And I enjoyed it when I was freelancing too. The world's a lot bigger than the little bit of it you're seeing now. Get out there and see some of it. Ah, the patronizing tone of someone without a clue. Some of us enjoy working on large, important things that need standards. I'm responsible for millions of dollars of revenue and financial transactions. That means I'm going to be conservative 'cause, y'know, money. Many, many people work in situations like that. The majority of programmers aren't web developers with one-off projects they mostly do by themselves.
- vinceguidry 12y ago
  Are you seriously trying to tell me that for some people it's impossible to have career goals because your job won't let you?
  - opendais 12y ago
    Did I say a career goal? No? Maybe y'know, you shouldn't put words in people's mouths and actually read what was written. I'm telling you the way you value/put things is specific to you and a smaller percentage of the programmer population than you imply. It works for web developers working on small projects. It doesn't work in larger team environments where having 90% of the developers needing to learn X to maintain the project is a noticeable impact. > Ultimately this is why I don't take any of my side projects seriously anymore, and if there's something I want to learn, I'll find a way to get paid for it. Side projects should be taken seriously because people aren't going to rearrange their careers to scratch itches like "I want to see if I like Django better than RoR". If that falls under the category of "career goal" for you, we honestly should stop talking to each other because we operate on two very different levels. We are never going to agree. The problem becomes when you [like the OP] try to apply your limited world view as a universal truth. One of my side projects that I run for fun and setup in a couple weekends generates thousands of dollars a year which I then reinvest into my side projects to amuse myself. It is a hobby that pays for all of my computer-related hobbies. So when people like you and the OP dismiss them, I'm amused because I realize I can't take either of you seriously. You don't consider the possibility that you are wrong when told you are mistaken but instead resort to claiming I don't know what I'm talking about. I know another developer whose side project generates non-negligible revenues and consulting gigs. So when you said can't take your side projects seriously to reinforce the OP's point, you reinforce this idea that side projects should not be taken seriously.
    - vinceguidry 12y ago
      > Side projects should be taken seriously because people aren't going to rearrange their careers to scratch itches like "I want to see if I like Django better than RoR". If that falls under the category of "career goal" for you, we honestly should stop talking to each other because we operate on two very different levels. We are never going to agree. I guess you're right, we're never going to agree. The choice of platform to specialize in is in my opinion a very very important career decision you have to make, because the switching costs are greater than we're going to see. Platform familiarity has bought me 90% of the flexibility I have at my job. I got to be that familiar because I happen to really like Rails. I got to learn Rails because I got someone to pay me to learn it. At one point, a career goal of mine was to "get paid full time to work with Rails." Now that I've achieved that goal, I have bigger and better ones. I don't know what level you are operating at, but my new goals involve putting together a cohesive team that can knock out projects really fast, followed by starting a company with the experience gained from accomplishing the former. > One of my side projects that I run for fun and setup in a couple weekends generates thousands of dollars a year... Thousands a year? I just don't get spending that kind of time for that little of a return. I'd rather roll that effort into being a better coder and the best way I've seen to do that is to work on projects bigger than yourself, that bring lots of people with different talents in to build something that much more interesting and viable. If I just wanted a few thousand more, I'd ask for a raise. Just because it's non-negligible doesn't mean it's worth my time.