24 ms·

Well, knowing this is intended to be just funny I have to point out a few things: > All this from a country that was ordinary, believable, and dare I say it so

by xxxyy 12y ago

Well, knowing this is intended to be just funny I have to point out a few things: > All this from a country that was ordinary, believable, and dare I say it sometimes even sympathetic in previous seasons. Germany was drowned in serious economic depression that was deep enough to trigger a huge social response. Plus we cannot forget about the humiliating Versaille Treaty. > they instantly forget about all the racism nonsense and become best buddies with the definitely non-Aryan Japanese Holocaust was not intended to wipe out all other races, only those that stood in the way. This includes Jews and Romani people for inhabiting "incorrect" lands, East European nations for inhabiting fertile lands. Hitler was happy to jump into one bed with Hungarians or Italians for example, although it is not obvious what would happen later had he won. > Apparently we're supposed to believe that in the middle of the war the Germans attacked their allies the Russians, starting an unwinnable conflict on two fronts (...) And Hitler was not far from taking over Moscow in 1941. Of course the failure of Operation Barbarossa was huge, but there was a point when Stalin must have been really afraid about the future his capital (end of July 1941, before Nazi troops diverted north for Leningrad and south for Kiev, following an order from the Furer himself; his generals strongly opposed this order).

jonnathanson 12y ago
Hitler was willing to be opportunistically flexible with his definition of the "Aryan race." For instance, he recognized Iranians, Arabs, and Turks as "Aryans"[1] in so far as they supported his war efforts. He also dubbed the Japanese "Honorary Aryans," whatever that's supposed to have meant. (Hirohito was about as fanatical over "racial purity" as Hitler was, and perhaps Hitler saw in him a kindred spirit, in addition to a military ally. Extant records and writings suggest that Hitler viewed the Japanese as more reliable allies than the Italians, whom he was planning to double-cross at some point down the road. This is probably because Italy shared a border with Hitler's Germany, by way of Austria, and hence, was "in the way," while Japan was not. Hitler's writings and track record suggest that, had he won the war, he'd have turned on pretty much any country at any time, should they have proved inconvenient for any reason). [1] Leaving aside the obvious, of course, which is that Iranians are arguably more "Aryan" than Middle-European Caucasians. That is to say, if we use the historically accurate definition of the term, and not the Nazi-racist-mythological definition of the "Aryan" people.
- lotsofmangos 12y ago
  Regarding the definition of Aryan, Tolkien trolled a Berlin publisher wonderfully on that score. Dear Sirs, Thank you for your letter. I regret that I am not clear as to what you intend by arisch. I am not of Aryan extraction: that is Indo-Iranian; as far as I am aware none of my ancestors spoke Hindustani, Persian, Gypsy, or any related dialects. But if I am to understand that you are enquiring whether I am of Jewish origin, I can only reply that I regret that I appear to have no ancestors of that gifted people. My great-great-grandfather came to England in the eighteenth century from Germany: the main part of my descent is therefore purely English, and I am an English subject — which should be sufficient. I have been accustomed, nonetheless, to regard my German name with pride, and continued to do so throughout the period of the late regrettable war, in which I served in the English army. I cannot, however, forbear to comment that if impertinent and irrelevant inquiries of this sort are to become the rule in matters of literature, then the time is not far distant when a German name will no longer be a source of pride. Your enquiry is doubtless made in order to comply with the laws of your own country, but that this should be held to apply to the subjects of another state would be improper, even if it had (as it has not) any bearing whatsoever on the merits of my work or its sustainability for publication, of which you appear to have satisfied yourselves without reference to my Abstammung. I trust you will find this reply satisfactory, and remain yours faithfully, J. R. R. Tolkien
  - arethuza 12y ago
    Perhaps worth noting the basis for Sam: “My ‘Sam Gamgee’ is indeed a reflexion of the English soldier, of the privates and batmen I knew in the 1914 war, and recognized as so far superior to myself.” http://johngarth.wordpress.com/2014/02/13/sam-gamgee-and-tolkiens-batmen/ http://johngarth.wordpress.com/2014/02/13/sam-gamgee-and-tol...
- curun1r 12y ago
  The whole fixation on Aryan race was less about racial purity than it was about psychological transference. The combination of abusive child rearing practices, the Treaty of Versailles and the economic depression left many, if not most, Germans very angry with no logical outlet for that anger. Hitler was able to channel that anger towards minority groups, particularly Jews. The other, somewhat controversial theory for why he targeted Jews was the possibility that he was actually 1/8 Jewish and he was targeting the part of himself that he considered shameful. Regardless, the fixation on the Aryan master race was never about the belief that there should only be one race. It was about needing to feel powerful when others had made them feel victimized. It was the cycle of child abuse played out on an international scale. It didn't need to be ideologically consistent so long as it soothed that hurt that both Hitler and much of the German people felt. For anyone interested in the psychological explanations for the war, Alice Miller's "For Your Own Good" is any excellent exploration of that subject.
uniformlyrandom 12y ago
> Stalin must have been really afraid about the future his capital After French took Moscow in 1812, and then subsequently lost the war, it was not such a big deal. Everyone knows, the further you invade Russia in summer, the longer is the way back in winter.
philwelch 12y ago
I'm also dubious that Germany was "sympathetic" prior to WWII. Prussia and Imperial Germany were aggressive, conquering states for decades.

by xxxyy 12y ago

jonnathanson 12y ago

Hitler was willing to be opportunistically flexible with his definition of the "Aryan race." For instance, he recognized Iranians, Arabs, and Turks as "Aryans"[1] in so far as they supported his war efforts. He also dubbed the Japanese "Honorary Aryans," whatever that's supposed to have meant. (Hirohito was about as fanatical over "racial purity" as Hitler was, and perhaps Hitler saw in him a kindred spirit, in addition to a military ally. Extant records and writings suggest that Hitler viewed the Japanese as more reliable allies than the Italians, whom he was planning to double-cross at some point down the road. This is probably because Italy shared a border with Hitler's Germany, by way of Austria, and hence, was "in the way," while Japan was not. Hitler's writings and track record suggest that, had he won the war, he'd have turned on pretty much any country at any time, should they have proved inconvenient for any reason). [1] Leaving aside the obvious, of course, which is that Iranians are arguably more "Aryan" than Middle-European Caucasians. That is to say, if we use the historically accurate definition of the term, and not the Nazi-racist-mythological definition of the "Aryan" people.

lotsofmangos 12y ago
Regarding the definition of Aryan, Tolkien trolled a Berlin publisher wonderfully on that score. Dear Sirs, Thank you for your letter. I regret that I am not clear as to what you intend by arisch. I am not of Aryan extraction: that is Indo-Iranian; as far as I am aware none of my ancestors spoke Hindustani, Persian, Gypsy, or any related dialects. But if I am to understand that you are enquiring whether I am of Jewish origin, I can only reply that I regret that I appear to have no ancestors of that gifted people. My great-great-grandfather came to England in the eighteenth century from Germany: the main part of my descent is therefore purely English, and I am an English subject — which should be sufficient. I have been accustomed, nonetheless, to regard my German name with pride, and continued to do so throughout the period of the late regrettable war, in which I served in the English army. I cannot, however, forbear to comment that if impertinent and irrelevant inquiries of this sort are to become the rule in matters of literature, then the time is not far distant when a German name will no longer be a source of pride. Your enquiry is doubtless made in order to comply with the laws of your own country, but that this should be held to apply to the subjects of another state would be improper, even if it had (as it has not) any bearing whatsoever on the merits of my work or its sustainability for publication, of which you appear to have satisfied yourselves without reference to my Abstammung. I trust you will find this reply satisfactory, and remain yours faithfully, J. R. R. Tolkien
- arethuza 12y ago
  Perhaps worth noting the basis for Sam: “My ‘Sam Gamgee’ is indeed a reflexion of the English soldier, of the privates and batmen I knew in the 1914 war, and recognized as so far superior to myself.” http://johngarth.wordpress.com/2014/02/13/sam-gamgee-and-tolkiens-batmen/ http://johngarth.wordpress.com/2014/02/13/sam-gamgee-and-tol...
curun1r 12y ago
The whole fixation on Aryan race was less about racial purity than it was about psychological transference. The combination of abusive child rearing practices, the Treaty of Versailles and the economic depression left many, if not most, Germans very angry with no logical outlet for that anger. Hitler was able to channel that anger towards minority groups, particularly Jews. The other, somewhat controversial theory for why he targeted Jews was the possibility that he was actually 1/8 Jewish and he was targeting the part of himself that he considered shameful. Regardless, the fixation on the Aryan master race was never about the belief that there should only be one race. It was about needing to feel powerful when others had made them feel victimized. It was the cycle of child abuse played out on an international scale. It didn't need to be ideologically consistent so long as it soothed that hurt that both Hitler and much of the German people felt. For anyone interested in the psychological explanations for the war, Alice Miller's "For Your Own Good" is any excellent exploration of that subject.

uniformlyrandom 12y ago

> Stalin must have been really afraid about the future his capital After French took Moscow in 1812, and then subsequently lost the war, it was not such a big deal. Everyone knows, the further you invade Russia in summer, the longer is the way back in winter.

philwelch 12y ago

I'm also dubious that Germany was "sympathetic" prior to WWII. Prussia and Imperial Germany were aggressive, conquering states for decades.