6 ms·

The current trend is rooted in the fact that computer displays approach the visual fidelity of paper prints by now (> 300dpi). Consequently a more print like de

The current trend is rooted in the fact that computer displays approach the visual fidelity of paper prints by now (> 300dpi). Consequently a more print like design language is adopted, which often features a small selection of colours and simple geometric shapes. The large variety in print design demonstrates that this is not an unreasonable restriction. In my eyes the translucency of windows in Yosemite is a much nicer choice than "brushed aluminium" or "black with fake highlights", it does not pretend to be something it is not. Eventually I would prefer if the "Desktop" metaphor, including "Folders", was given up and replaced with something different. The faster the design language becomes more abstract to facilitate that change, the better. We are stuck with an overall UI design initially conceived in the 70s, alternative versions of personal computing like the Lisp Machine died unfortunately.

petilon 12y ago
Unlike print, computer user interfaces are interactive. When you adopt a print-like design language you remove cues that indicate how to interact with the interface. For examples of how Apple's new UI is less usable than their old UI see: http://uxcritique.tumblr.com http://uxcritique.tumblr.com
- smt88 12y ago
  I wish I could up-vote this a thousand times. I often tap things that are just rectangles and fail to realize that other rectangles are buttons. I can't wait for "everything is flat, two-tone, and rectangular" to be replaced by whatever the next trend is. Hopefully something more useful. Ironic note: the flat trend was really made mainstream by Microsoft when it released Windows Phone 7.
  - AtTheLast 12y ago
    With flat design, sometimes it's really hard to know what you are suppose to click on. I enjoy its simplicity, but it does have some usability problems that come with it. I think we went way overboard with it and the pendulum swung to far to the side of flat design. Hopefully we start moving away from super trendy flat design, much like we moved away from those crazy web 2.0 design styles.
    - peterchon 12y ago
      flat design is trending because we have so many "designers" who can't design.
      - AtTheLast 12y ago
        What do you think separates a "designer" from a designer?
        tomelders 12y ago
        I would say Consideration. I am a designer, and I work with lots of designers. Design is harder than it looks and even brilliant designers don't get it right 100% of the time, but I can see a clear difference between the types of designers whose work "looks right" and designers who have approached a brief with the aim of figuring out what "works right". It's easier to be the former than the latter both in terms of skill and the politics of the client relationship, and that's why there are so many "designers" and so few designers.
        nazka 12y ago
        Yes. A real designer isn't just a UI artist. Art is one skill among others. A real designer should also understand: UX, human behaviour and interaction, logic, visual language (architecture, shape, color, animation) and other skills... Most designers don't get it right because they don't have these skills, they are only artists. And because of that they don't understand why a particular design is better than another or even what their own design expresses. To do a real design, it asks you to do a ton of research and going back and forth between art and UX. Doing brain storming to implement old and new logic elements in a fashion way. It's like the iOS 6 it was a big step forward because it was a design: simple, expressive, and functional. The guys who created it understood all of that. Then again, Apple followed the fashion trend more than the logic and did the iOS 7 design criticized even before it was out. The problem, among its specific fashion, was that the design was so flat it was destroying UI information. Plus visual problems: sometimes the color seems to mean something but you find one red button that isn't one, sometimes the shape, sometimes the animation... Here is an example of what a designer should do to design a UI. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/archive/2013/06/27/designing-the-visual-studio-2013-user-experience.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/archive/2013/06/27/desi...
- tomelders 12y ago
  I have to echo this sentiment. Comparisons to print design do not hold up to event he most casual scrutiny.
  - socceroos 12y ago
    Simplifying the design ethos of Material down to 'print design' without understanding how it works is unhelpful, IMHO.
    - tomelders 12y ago
      I think we were talking about the print paradigm in general. I agree that it would be a false dichotomy where material is concerned.
- king_jester 12y ago
  In Material design, you are still intended to make use of proper cues for useable components. Interactive components are supposed to exist as another logical layer on top of static content. This is the change from Holo, do not use flat things so often for interactive widgets.
programminggeek 12y ago
Computer displays on average don't. Phone displays largely do, but there are millions of computers sold every quarter that aren't anywhere close to retina displays. Also, there are hundreds of millions of existing devices with non-retina screens. Probably not wise to abandon those because of the new shiny thing.
gohrt 12y ago
When Windows 7 did translucency, it was considred ugly. Now when Apple does it, it's good design.
- tomelders 12y ago
  I don't agree. I think apple is fielding a lot of criticism for its current design.
  - alexsopilot 12y ago
    My opinion on Apple's use is mixed. In cases like the OS X lock screen, the use is great. It signifies an inability to continue until the device is unlocked while hinting at the content underneath. Other uses are gratuitous and often the blurring and blending of colors creates weird sensations where what is underneath a window seems more important. I can see something is there, but can't make out the details, make me anxious that I'm missing something happening in the window.
alexsopilot 12y ago
The "Folder" metaphor is something I've been considering a lot lately. It seems so ingrained in modern computing. Apple has started to move away from it tags and "All my Files." I struggle to think of a better way to solve organizing and collecting items than into nested groups.
- azinman2 12y ago
  We launch next month. Just wait :)
  - teacup50 12y ago
    Yet-another-software-as-a-service-dont-own-your-own-data-startup. Great.
    - azinman2 12y ago
      Not sure where you got that assumption from. We don't own your data anymore than Dropbox does.
      - teacup50 12y ago
        So what you're saying is, you own it entirely. Dropbox has: - Access to everyone's data. - Control over everyone's data. - Control over the clients used to access that data. What is actually private? Nothing. What do users "own"? None of their tools. SaaS makes the world a worse place, one rent-seeking product at a time.
  - azinman2 12y ago
    Why the down votes?
    - SwellJoe 12y ago
      Your comment had zero content and no value for anyone other than you. I'm happy you're excited about your launch, but, unless you're linking a technical, or at least informative, blog post or similar that describes ways you're solving the problem the person you replied talked about, Hacker News isn't the right place to brag.
tim333 12y ago
>The current trend is rooted in the fact that computer displays approach the visual fidelity of paper prints by now (> 300dpi) My impression (I'm not expert) is that the trend is rooted in the opposite - the crappy displays of cheap phones. The old fancy graphics of say Windows 7 could not render quickly or at all on cheap phones so with the advent of responsive design companies used flat design so the same graphics could be used on all devices including cheap phones. I get the technical issue but I still find it a bit ugly.

petilon 12y ago

Unlike print, computer user interfaces are interactive. When you adopt a print-like design language you remove cues that indicate how to interact with the interface. For examples of how Apple's new UI is less usable than their old UI see: http://uxcritique.tumblr.com http://uxcritique.tumblr.com

smt88 12y ago
I wish I could up-vote this a thousand times. I often tap things that are just rectangles and fail to realize that other rectangles are buttons. I can't wait for "everything is flat, two-tone, and rectangular" to be replaced by whatever the next trend is. Hopefully something more useful. Ironic note: the flat trend was really made mainstream by Microsoft when it released Windows Phone 7.
- AtTheLast 12y ago
  With flat design, sometimes it's really hard to know what you are suppose to click on. I enjoy its simplicity, but it does have some usability problems that come with it. I think we went way overboard with it and the pendulum swung to far to the side of flat design. Hopefully we start moving away from super trendy flat design, much like we moved away from those crazy web 2.0 design styles.
  - peterchon 12y ago
    flat design is trending because we have so many "designers" who can't design.
    - AtTheLast 12y ago
      What do you think separates a "designer" from a designer?
      - tomelders 12y ago
        I would say Consideration. I am a designer, and I work with lots of designers. Design is harder than it looks and even brilliant designers don't get it right 100% of the time, but I can see a clear difference between the types of designers whose work "looks right" and designers who have approached a brief with the aim of figuring out what "works right". It's easier to be the former than the latter both in terms of skill and the politics of the client relationship, and that's why there are so many "designers" and so few designers.
        nazka 12y ago
        Yes. A real designer isn't just a UI artist. Art is one skill among others. A real designer should also understand: UX, human behaviour and interaction, logic, visual language (architecture, shape, color, animation) and other skills... Most designers don't get it right because they don't have these skills, they are only artists. And because of that they don't understand why a particular design is better than another or even what their own design expresses. To do a real design, it asks you to do a ton of research and going back and forth between art and UX. Doing brain storming to implement old and new logic elements in a fashion way. It's like the iOS 6 it was a big step forward because it was a design: simple, expressive, and functional. The guys who created it understood all of that. Then again, Apple followed the fashion trend more than the logic and did the iOS 7 design criticized even before it was out. The problem, among its specific fashion, was that the design was so flat it was destroying UI information. Plus visual problems: sometimes the color seems to mean something but you find one red button that isn't one, sometimes the shape, sometimes the animation... Here is an example of what a designer should do to design a UI. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/archive/2013/06/27/designing-the-visual-studio-2013-user-experience.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/archive/2013/06/27/desi...
tomelders 12y ago
I have to echo this sentiment. Comparisons to print design do not hold up to event he most casual scrutiny.
- socceroos 12y ago
  Simplifying the design ethos of Material down to 'print design' without understanding how it works is unhelpful, IMHO.
  - tomelders 12y ago
    I think we were talking about the print paradigm in general. I agree that it would be a false dichotomy where material is concerned.
king_jester 12y ago
In Material design, you are still intended to make use of proper cues for useable components. Interactive components are supposed to exist as another logical layer on top of static content. This is the change from Holo, do not use flat things so often for interactive widgets.

programminggeek 12y ago

Computer displays on average don't. Phone displays largely do, but there are millions of computers sold every quarter that aren't anywhere close to retina displays. Also, there are hundreds of millions of existing devices with non-retina screens. Probably not wise to abandon those because of the new shiny thing.

gohrt 12y ago

When Windows 7 did translucency, it was considred ugly. Now when Apple does it, it's good design.

tomelders 12y ago
I don't agree. I think apple is fielding a lot of criticism for its current design.
- alexsopilot 12y ago
  My opinion on Apple's use is mixed. In cases like the OS X lock screen, the use is great. It signifies an inability to continue until the device is unlocked while hinting at the content underneath. Other uses are gratuitous and often the blurring and blending of colors creates weird sensations where what is underneath a window seems more important. I can see something is there, but can't make out the details, make me anxious that I'm missing something happening in the window.

alexsopilot 12y ago

The "Folder" metaphor is something I've been considering a lot lately. It seems so ingrained in modern computing. Apple has started to move away from it tags and "All my Files." I struggle to think of a better way to solve organizing and collecting items than into nested groups.

azinman2 12y ago
We launch next month. Just wait :)
- teacup50 12y ago
  Yet-another-software-as-a-service-dont-own-your-own-data-startup. Great.
  - azinman2 12y ago
    Not sure where you got that assumption from. We don't own your data anymore than Dropbox does.
    - teacup50 12y ago
      So what you're saying is, you own it entirely. Dropbox has: - Access to everyone's data. - Control over everyone's data. - Control over the clients used to access that data. What is actually private? Nothing. What do users "own"? None of their tools. SaaS makes the world a worse place, one rent-seeking product at a time.
- azinman2 12y ago
  Why the down votes?
  - SwellJoe 12y ago
    Your comment had zero content and no value for anyone other than you. I'm happy you're excited about your launch, but, unless you're linking a technical, or at least informative, blog post or similar that describes ways you're solving the problem the person you replied talked about, Hacker News isn't the right place to brag.

tim333 12y ago

>The current trend is rooted in the fact that computer displays approach the visual fidelity of paper prints by now (> 300dpi) My impression (I'm not expert) is that the trend is rooted in the opposite - the crappy displays of cheap phones. The old fancy graphics of say Windows 7 could not render quickly or at all on cheap phones so with the advent of responsive design companies used flat design so the same graphics could be used on all devices including cheap phones. I get the technical issue but I still find it a bit ugly.