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The comments thus far are disappointing. People go to the trouble of making a pithy comment on hackernews, but surely since many of us here are developers we un

The comments thus far are disappointing. People go to the trouble of making a pithy comment on hackernews, but surely since many of us here are developers we understand the frustration of bad bug reports. Is it so hard to bottle up your negative comments and spend another two minutes doing something constructive - like heading over to github and adding an issue with your system specs?

eps 12y ago
These comments are as constructive as it gets - test your shit before submitting it for a public review or clearly state that it wasn't tested outside that one Mac it was written on. I would rather not see HN turn into a sloppy developers support group, though it is already part way there.
tjelen 12y ago
Well, I think it should be at least marked as a work-in-progress. Because right now it looks like it's a production-ready framework, and yet people are reporting that it doesn't work on major platforms.
rattray 12y ago
Heading over to github would help the project, it is true. But HN isn't only a place where people come for help. It's also a place where people come to share. And when low-quality (or not-yet-production-ready) work is shared, it's important that we let each other know that. Especially when the site seems to imply it's "ready", as this one does.
ohyesyodo 12y ago
I visited the site on my Windows Phone 8.1, and the page is rendered incorrectly. There's white text on white background, different text sections overlapping eachother, columns being one word wide and lot of more things. According to other comments here, it is unusable on iphone and broken on android as well. According to issues in their tracker, it does not work on Windows 8/Firefox and Ubuntu/Firefox. It also renders incorrectly on Chrone om Windows 8 (on my laptop, at least). If you're creating a new CSS framework, publish it and fail to mention that it's work in progress and it only works on a limited set of platforms (like what), you have wasted my time. I really hope developers doesn't expect to only get constructive feedback when doing something like that.
xorcist 12y ago
It's not "negative comments" to point out to other people what works and what doesn't. Complain as much as you want about how I don't push fixes, but as long as I'm not paid those complaints are better kept to yourself. (I realize you are not one of the developers for this project. I only want to illustrate how negativity goes both ways. I'm a bit tired of "contribute or shut up". There's a big gray area inbetween.)
- Mbvhfchffdsr 12y ago
  It's kind of strange how there's a whole generation of young developers who are supposedly «hurt» by perfectly valid criticism of objectively flawed or bad work. This wasn't always the case. Before the whole «social justice» movement infected the software development industry and hobby, it was expected that bad work would get publicly criticized. This was a good thing, because it fostered improvement, and high quality work. But now that apparently all takes a back seat to making sure nobody has «hurt feelings».
  - xorcist 12y ago
    It needn't be bad, even. Pointing out a bug in the comment field is somehow "negativity", while working through the bug tracker of github is "constructive". In this case one could say thank you for the input and register the issue oneself, if the project was dear to ones heart. I wonder if it is a product of young developers being told to build a public github profile, that they are increasingly careful about?
Mbvhfchffdsr 12y ago
Having to use GitHub to report bugs is itself a very serious bug. It should always be possible to submit bug reports and comments anonymously, or as a "guest". Making it difficult for users to report bugs is stupid, and harmful. While some people do already use GitHub, there are more of us who don't. It's bad enough that I had to create an account here to post this comment. I refuse to go through the more extensive GitHub signup just to report a bug affecting software I don't really care about.

eps 12y ago

These comments are as constructive as it gets - test your shit before submitting it for a public review or clearly state that it wasn't tested outside that one Mac it was written on. I would rather not see HN turn into a sloppy developers support group, though it is already part way there.

tjelen 12y ago

Well, I think it should be at least marked as a work-in-progress. Because right now it looks like it's a production-ready framework, and yet people are reporting that it doesn't work on major platforms.

rattray 12y ago

Heading over to github would help the project, it is true. But HN isn't only a place where people come for help. It's also a place where people come to share. And when low-quality (or not-yet-production-ready) work is shared, it's important that we let each other know that. Especially when the site seems to imply it's "ready", as this one does.

ohyesyodo 12y ago

I visited the site on my Windows Phone 8.1, and the page is rendered incorrectly. There's white text on white background, different text sections overlapping eachother, columns being one word wide and lot of more things. According to other comments here, it is unusable on iphone and broken on android as well. According to issues in their tracker, it does not work on Windows 8/Firefox and Ubuntu/Firefox. It also renders incorrectly on Chrone om Windows 8 (on my laptop, at least). If you're creating a new CSS framework, publish it and fail to mention that it's work in progress and it only works on a limited set of platforms (like what), you have wasted my time. I really hope developers doesn't expect to only get constructive feedback when doing something like that.

xorcist 12y ago

It's not "negative comments" to point out to other people what works and what doesn't. Complain as much as you want about how I don't push fixes, but as long as I'm not paid those complaints are better kept to yourself. (I realize you are not one of the developers for this project. I only want to illustrate how negativity goes both ways. I'm a bit tired of "contribute or shut up". There's a big gray area inbetween.)

Mbvhfchffdsr 12y ago
It's kind of strange how there's a whole generation of young developers who are supposedly «hurt» by perfectly valid criticism of objectively flawed or bad work. This wasn't always the case. Before the whole «social justice» movement infected the software development industry and hobby, it was expected that bad work would get publicly criticized. This was a good thing, because it fostered improvement, and high quality work. But now that apparently all takes a back seat to making sure nobody has «hurt feelings».
- xorcist 12y ago
  It needn't be bad, even. Pointing out a bug in the comment field is somehow "negativity", while working through the bug tracker of github is "constructive". In this case one could say thank you for the input and register the issue oneself, if the project was dear to ones heart. I wonder if it is a product of young developers being told to build a public github profile, that they are increasingly careful about?

Mbvhfchffdsr 12y ago

Having to use GitHub to report bugs is itself a very serious bug. It should always be possible to submit bug reports and comments anonymously, or as a "guest". Making it difficult for users to report bugs is stupid, and harmful. While some people do already use GitHub, there are more of us who don't. It's bad enough that I had to create an account here to post this comment. I refuse to go through the more extensive GitHub signup just to report a bug affecting software I don't really care about.