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> And this is when you begin looking into Zen, and things become clearer and muddier at the same time [...] I hope you take this the right way, but this positi

> And this is when you begin looking into Zen, and things become clearer and muddier at the same time [...] I hope you take this the right way, but this position is very California-ized pseudo-Zen. Many of the most well-regarded Zen practitioners and teachers very much would have savaged it, EX: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakuin_Ekaku http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakuin_Ekaku http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakuin_Ekaku#Opposition_to_.22Do-nothing_Zen.22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakuin_Ekaku#Opposition_to_.22D... > "One of Hakuin's major concerns was the danger of what he called "Do-nothing Zen" teachers, who upon reaching some small experience of enlightenment devoted the rest of their life to, as he puts it, "passing day after day in a state of seated sleep". Quietist practices seeking simply to empty the mind, or teachers who taught that a tranquil "emptiness" was enlightenment, were Hakuin's constant targets. In this regard he was especially critical of followers of the maverick Zen master Bankei. He stressed a never-ending and severe training to deepen the insight of enlightenment and forge one's ability to manifest it in all activities. He urged his students to never be satisfied with shallow attainments, and truly believed that enlightenment was possible for anyone if they exerted themselves and approached their practice with real energy." Hakuin, who is pretty damn amazing and certainly lived an amazing life by almost anyone's standards, wrote that after achieving some basic glimpses enlightenment, you ought to be out helping people and doing good things. You'll see that in non-priest Zen practitioners, too. Miyamoto Musashi's ink paintings show such a depth of clarity and a sort of both sad and beautiful aliveness: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/00/Kobokumeigekizu.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/00/Kobokumei... In any event -- I think Hakuin, Musashi, Dogen, etc all would reject "clearer and muddier" intellectualism in favor of actually practicing and doing worthwhile things: Dogen: "To practice the Way singleheartedly is, in itself, enlightenment. There is no gap between practice and enlightenment or zazen and daily life." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C5%8Dgen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C5%8Dgen Anyway, I mean this with all the most respect. The Zen practitioners that really stand the test of time and made a difference in their communities are ones that saw it less as an intellectual orientation, and much moreso as a very actionable way of life.

calinet6 12y ago
This I agree with completely, but you must recognize the need for a stepping stone when speaking to people who are otherwise totally ignorant of Zen, and also the fact that with this set of ideas, surely it is not a maximization effort: even a moderate comprehension of Zen is better than nothing. Some would say that this does not exist, but I have personally experienced great benefit from the way of thinking if not fully the way of life, and I know others have a chance to as well. In other terms, it is very difficult to sell a way of life, but people readily accept one small idea in that direction. I very much respect what you have written and know it to be true, but I also believe that the intellectual part of zen, while surely not complete at all, has so many useful and real benefits that it can't be ignored, and it makes a fine introduction. Whatever the destination, the western mind needs some convincing. However, I have taken to heart what you have said and I will further my learning by going and doing. Edit: After some thought, I do want to re-iterate that I think there are two realizations (not close to enlightenment, or to Zen, per se, but related) that I think are relevant to this discussion: that reality is paradoxical, and that one of those paradoxes is that often effort in a certain direction is inversely proportional to success. We often find what we're looking for when we're not looking for it, and we often hit the target when we're least trying to. The major realization is that these are not just silly anecdotes or trivialities, but a core part of life itself and what it means to be human. They are very important, and the original article shows a manifestation of those ideas in a very clear and human way without identifying them exactly.
PavlovsCat 12y ago
Before enlightenment: chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment: chop wood, carry water. -- Zen Proverb (allegedly, I have it from the internet)

calinet6 12y ago

This I agree with completely, but you must recognize the need for a stepping stone when speaking to people who are otherwise totally ignorant of Zen, and also the fact that with this set of ideas, surely it is not a maximization effort: even a moderate comprehension of Zen is better than nothing. Some would say that this does not exist, but I have personally experienced great benefit from the way of thinking if not fully the way of life, and I know others have a chance to as well. In other terms, it is very difficult to sell a way of life, but people readily accept one small idea in that direction. I very much respect what you have written and know it to be true, but I also believe that the intellectual part of zen, while surely not complete at all, has so many useful and real benefits that it can't be ignored, and it makes a fine introduction. Whatever the destination, the western mind needs some convincing. However, I have taken to heart what you have said and I will further my learning by going and doing. Edit: After some thought, I do want to re-iterate that I think there are two realizations (not close to enlightenment, or to Zen, per se, but related) that I think are relevant to this discussion: that reality is paradoxical, and that one of those paradoxes is that often effort in a certain direction is inversely proportional to success. We often find what we're looking for when we're not looking for it, and we often hit the target when we're least trying to. The major realization is that these are not just silly anecdotes or trivialities, but a core part of life itself and what it means to be human. They are very important, and the original article shows a manifestation of those ideas in a very clear and human way without identifying them exactly.

PavlovsCat 12y ago

Before enlightenment: chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment: chop wood, carry water. -- Zen Proverb (allegedly, I have it from the internet)