6 ms·
Three arrests fail to solve mystery of drones flying over French nuclear plants
- Icybee 12y agoMaybe security UAVs could be an answer? If an unknown drone appears over a nuclear power plant, the plant could launch a UAV to follow it about until it goes home, watch who picks it up after it lands, and then just send in the police.
- justincormack 12y agoIt is somewhat unclear why they have failed to follow them with helicopters, did they just lose them? It is unclear if these are day or night flights though.
- oakwhiz 12y agoI would imagine that chasing one of these "drones" (which is essentially a toy helicopter) using a real helicopter would be difficult, since the toy helicopter is smaller, more maneuverable, and more difficult to see. Sort of like trying to chase a bird using an airplane. In addition, the toy helicopter would not be easy to see on radar, especially if it were to fly close to the ground.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- nraynaud 12y agoI guess they are so small that they lost them from view.
- tomjen3 12y agoThe drones are likely small and fly comparatively fast - I don't think following them in a chopper would be easy, certainly not if the person piloting the drone is skilled enough.
- throwwit 12y agoThey can be very fast... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa9dX1hkEYI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa9dX1hkEYI (Amazing Stunts RC WORLD) -- Thought it was CG first time around.
- p4bl0 12y agoAccording to the interviewed expert in the video linked by audessuscest, they are night flights.
- astrobe_ 12y agoThis was a silly, unprepared answer anyway, just like the order to shoot them down. They've probably setup radio scanners and possibly jammers in order to intercept the video/command stream.
- lsaferite 12y agoThis is one I fail to understand. With radio triangulation that should be able to pinpoint the controller. I know most of the newer control equipment is using spread spectrum and frequency hopping, but I imagine that is a solvable issue.
- robryk 12y agoAnd they have to proceed to that point quickly enough to find the fellow operating it still there. Also, if I wished to avoid detection, I'd set up a transceiver linked to a data GSM connection and leave it in a random place in the middle of nowhere. Maybe even I'd have a few of those to confuse direction finding attempts (not sure how feasible that is).
- lsaferite 12y agoWell, I would hope every nuclear power station has a rapid reaction security force on hand 24/7 the could respond to these 'threats'. As for the misdirection, using cellular relay devices is something most wouldn't do and even if they did it would provide a lead that could be followed.
- willvarfar 12y agoDrones can be a serious hazard to larger aircraft. A drone could easily destroy a helicopter, rather like a bird strike can. When the village of Laerdalsoyri burnt down in Norway in January the emergency services had to ground their own fire fighting helicopters because news drones were a hazard: > police told Norwegian newspaper VG that a helicopter was being delayed because of suspected media drones taking pictures in the area. > "It is important for us to stress that if someone is using drones, they must get them out of there," police spokesman Nils Erik Eggen said. > "This could create a hazardous situation and may pose a danger to helicopters." > The police could not say how many drones had been operating in the area. So one could imagine a movie plot terrorist attack where unarmed drones fly over an airport and cause a total shutdown, or in the blockbuster version actually try and intercept a landing airliner.
- ExpiredLink 12y agoThe solution is anti-drone drones!
- notastartup 12y agoThis is scary! What if the drone carried an explosive, landed on the nuclear plants and detonated? I shudder at the thought. There should be a camera with 360 vision that constantly monitors the surrounding area for incoming projectiles and drones and shoot laser or bullets at it.
- robzyb 12y agoI would've guessed that most nuclear plants would be able to withstand a drone-load of explosive, especially after 9/11. Am I mistaken?
- rtpg 12y agoI believe I've heard something to the effect of if a plane was flown into a nuclear power plant there's no real chance of catastrophic nuclear-related damage (of course the loss of human life and some structural damage will happen)
- icebraining 12y agoOn the other hand, this has been possible for decades using RC planes (let alone regular planes).
- sjtrny 12y agoRC Planes are drones too.
- jotm 12y agoThe new electric quadcopters are like the first iPhone - people think it's an all new invention, when in fact we've had marvelous gas-powered RC helicopters for a long time.
- lsaferite 12y agoQuadcopters seem to be the platform that drove the highly advanced flight computers that allow anyone to fly the things. When I take my FCs out of acro mode even my 4 year old can fly them and not crash. They are being used on more platforms now, but the quads seems to be in the news as the front runners.
- audessuscest 12y agoFor the french : http://nos-medias.fr/video/drones-l-hypothese-inquietante-d-un-expert-en-energie-nucleaire http://nos-medias.fr/video/drones-l-hypothese-inquietante-d-... He explain that they may want to target transformer station and could shutdown all electric network in europe, yes that's scary Edit: i put the right link... the first one was just a report of the incident (sorry)
- robryk 12y agoThis is not a new idea: the British[1] tried using balloons with trailing wires during World War II (in the hope they'll short power lines). As far as I can recall (I can't find a source right now) the Japanese put lots of copper wires in their fire balloons[2] too, to hopefully cause a short when they explode. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Outward http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Outward [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_balloon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_balloon
- Havoc 12y agoJust shoot them down? Its an unauthorized vehicle over key infrastructure. Wouldn't even result in a loss of lives. So shoot it down & wait for the owner to start bitching (or not).
- csours 12y agoWhat goes up, must come down. [1] You could make sure your security forces understand exactly where they can shoot, but still, is it worth the risk to have bullets falling somewhere in a nuclear facility? 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebratory_gunfire http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebratory_gunfire
- Houshalter 12y agoPresumably they would use shotguns and not regular bullets. I don't know if that's that much less dangerous, but people do shoot at targets and birds like that all the time.
- toblender 12y agoIf we are concerned about safety, we can use a taser shotgun or rubber bullets. Or drones that hunt other drones...
- Havoc 12y ago>is it worth the risk to have bullets falling somewhere in a nuclear facility? The bullets aren't the issue. Nuclear facilities are usually not built from cardboard & prefab. The size of the drone is more the question - these seem to be smallish ones so it should be reasonably safe to have it drop near the plant.
- izacus 12y agoMy point is disproportionate response. A drone is nowhere near a security risk that would require a shooting response. Same as we're not using SAM sites to shoot down Cessnas that accidentaly blunder into no-fly zones over airports, powerplants and other bases just because they MIGHT (and in 99.9999999999999999999999+% cases they're not) cause some damage. I'm very very concerned just how the terrorist scare is trying to turn our countries into police states ruled by fear.
- andor 12y agoI worry more about the general safety of French (Swiss, German, ...) nuclear plants than these "drones". I guess it's some environmental group flying quadrocopters with sensors over the plants to make independent measurements.
- newaccountfool 12y agoWhy just French, Swiss and German? RC aircraft can be flown over anything, I doubt the US or UK have any better protection from RC Aircraft than the French, Swiss or Germans.
- quonn 12y agoSwitzerland and Germany are both phasing out nuclear power, by the way.
- strange_love 12y agoWell, usually, we'd just send Jack Bauer to torture someone...
- smoyer 12y ago"But ... I don't even own a drone!"
- newaccountfool 12y agoThese RC Aircraft will be almost impossible to track if set up correctly. Using Jamming devices would be stupid as it would block out mobile phone frequencys and you would need a strong enough jammer to block high flying aircraft. Even if the vehicle was jammed it would just fly home, but who says that home is where the controllers are, some of these aircraft can do 80km+ flights...It's not an easy issue to fix.
- Perseids 12y agoThe absurdity of nuclear plant safety: The risk of a disasters is "completely negligible", but fly a model plane or drone above a plant and all hell breaks loose. You can't have it both ways: Either scenarios with attackers flying Cessnas full of fertilizer into your facility etc. are a safety danger and the plants need to be reinforced immediately or drones above your plant are completely harmless and should not be prosecuted anymore than drones flying above the house of a celebrity. And if these plants are not safe, then shooting drones from the sky and imprisoning drone pilots will not change that fact. Edit: I've added quotes around "completely negligible" to make clear I was citing public opinion rather than presenting my own (@quonn).
- quonn 12y agoActually, the risk of disasters is not negligible at all, in particular if there is a sufficient number of power plants (431 worldwide currently). In the last 30 years, we have already seen two incidents that were above the "maximum credible accident", that is the probability of them happening was considered to be negligible. With that number of plants running, I would expect a major incident _somewhere_ every 20 years and historically we have seen more than that. Here [0] is a quite recent study by probably the most important german research institute that predicts one incident every 10 to 20 years, based on the number of plants running and data of historical incidents. There is also a nice summary in German [1]. [0] http://www.atmos-chem-phys.net/12/4245/2012/acp-12-4245-2012.html http://www.atmos-chem-phys.net/12/4245/2012/acp-12-4245-2012... [1] http://www.mpic.de/index.php?id=34298&type=0 http://www.mpic.de/index.php?id=34298&type=0
- izacus 12y agoWhat does that have to do with drones flying over powerplants? I agree in general, but here the response to what is essentially a toy flying over a concrete several meters thick bunker is just crazy.
- quonn 12y agoNothing, my comment was not about the drones. - I was responding to the parent commenter, before he or she put "completely negligible" in quotes.
- danbruc 12y agoHow much damage could you do by loading a drone with aluminium foil stripes and dropping this onto the electrical equipment? Would it just evaporate before causing much harm? Are the distances you have to short to large for bringing the needed material with drones? Of course this is neither limited to nuclear plants nor to drones.
- mschuster91 12y agoIt doesn't even need a real firearm or explosive to threaten a power plant. A 32 mm² copper wire with ~3m length is enough to cause a short in the high-voltage section. Two or three RC aircraft at the same time and you can potentially cause something like Fukushima by totally separating the plant from the grid and hoping that its UPS is broken... edit: every HV installation and even most middle-level (5-50 kV) installation can also be targeted by this. Left-wing radicals are already burning cable trenches of the train service in order to protest against nuclear power (I'm serious, this happened yesterday in East Germany), it's only a matter of time unless one of these fools tries a cable-equipped UAV against a HV distribution station...
- izacus 12y agoI say we ban all copper wires then and shoot everyone holding them. (Note: Not entirely serious, but there's something about drones that makes people entirely irrational.)
- robryk 12y agoI take issue with the statement that depriving a plant of line power and having a UPS failure will "cause something like Fukushima". An important factor in the Fukushima accident was the infeasibility of quickly (within a day or so) providing equipment to the plant due to the catastrophe everywhere around.
- mschuster91 12y agoIf coordinated enough, a sudden and unexpected total load drop on the whole power station may cause total mayhem due to turbine runaway; combined with a total loss of grid energy due to every grid HV connection being blown I am not sure if plant ops may be able to keep cooling up. These things are very rarely tested in production (esp. turbine containments). Right now we're just sitting there and pretend there are no terrorists or political extremists. We're rather like sitting ducks waiting for potshots.