3 ms·

While I'm not saying it's not fun to try and run OS X on PC hardware, can anyone explain to me how this is not morally equivalent to unauthorized copying / soft

by lmz 12y ago

While I'm not saying it's not fun to try and run OS X on PC hardware, can anyone explain to me how this is not morally equivalent to unauthorized copying / software piracy, given that they are both violations of the license agreement?

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
FireBeyond 12y ago
If you acquired the software legally, what then do you think? Now ask yourself this question if you legally purchased Oracle or MSSQL, and were evaluating for an application, testing, etc - and now I inform you that that's unauthorized, and Oracle's license forbids you from doing any form of benchmarking related to the database. Do you feel that you are being immoral to test your application?
- lmz 12y ago
  Are you saying that people purchased the software not knowing that the license agreement forbids you from running it on non-Apple hardware? There are even minimal protections in place to prevent it running on non-Apple hardware e.g. "Don't Steal Mac OS X.kext" http://www.osxbook.com/book/bonus/chapter7/binaryprotection/ http://www.osxbook.com/book/bonus/chapter7/binaryprotection/ so people can't just claim it magically worked on their PC when they installed it. To me what they are doing are no different from the people distributing cracked games with disabled copy protection.
- DanBC 12y ago
  Oracle licensing allows you to benchmark the software. You're not allowed to disclose the results without permission. http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/pricing/olsa-uk-v111003-070670.pdf http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/pricing/olsa-uk-v111003-0... You may not: • remove or modify any program markings or any notice of Oracle’s proprietary rights; • make the programs or materials resulting from the services available in any manner to any third party for use in the third party’s business operations (unless such access is expressly permitted for the specific program license or materials from the services you have acquired); • cause or permit reverse engineering (unless required by law for interoperability), disassembly or decompilation of the programs; or • disclose results of any program benchmark tests without Oracle’s prior written consent.
  - FireBeyond 12y ago
    Disclose to whom, though? It doesn't specify 'externally' to your company, 'publish' or 'to any other person'.
zerr 12y ago
Apple also forbids virtualising OSX on non-Apple hardware. So you can't run your OSX (which e.g. you bought legally) on VMware on Windows PC. So yes, formally this is illegal, but it is about common sense - when you feel that it is wrong to forbid such things - you happily "break" "law"...
- lmz 12y ago
  Tying the OS to the hardware is not exactly Apple-specific. If I bought a laptop with Windows preinstalled (an OEM license) I can't activate that on different hardware either. Saying "I bought that" to the support line would likely get me laughed at. If you bought OS X for non-Apple hardware, it has never been able to run there unmodified. It would be like complaining that my PS4 game doesn't run on the XBox One.
  - zerr 12y ago
    > It would be like complaining that my PS4 game doesn't run on the XBox One. Actually Apple tries to convert regular computer users to these kind of Console or Home Microwave users. They want us to have less and less control over our own devices and software. So yes, we break their licenses, but as I mentioned when we have to choose between a common sense vs counter-common-sense law - we choose the former one.
fulafel 12y ago
Most people don't feel morally bound to strictly follow software click through "agreements".

by lmz 12y ago

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

FireBeyond 12y ago

If you acquired the software legally, what then do you think? Now ask yourself this question if you legally purchased Oracle or MSSQL, and were evaluating for an application, testing, etc - and now I inform you that that's unauthorized, and Oracle's license forbids you from doing any form of benchmarking related to the database. Do you feel that you are being immoral to test your application?

lmz 12y ago
Are you saying that people purchased the software not knowing that the license agreement forbids you from running it on non-Apple hardware? There are even minimal protections in place to prevent it running on non-Apple hardware e.g. "Don't Steal Mac OS X.kext" http://www.osxbook.com/book/bonus/chapter7/binaryprotection/ http://www.osxbook.com/book/bonus/chapter7/binaryprotection/ so people can't just claim it magically worked on their PC when they installed it. To me what they are doing are no different from the people distributing cracked games with disabled copy protection.
DanBC 12y ago
Oracle licensing allows you to benchmark the software. You're not allowed to disclose the results without permission. http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/pricing/olsa-uk-v111003-070670.pdf http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/pricing/olsa-uk-v111003-0... You may not: • remove or modify any program markings or any notice of Oracle’s proprietary rights; • make the programs or materials resulting from the services available in any manner to any third party for use in the third party’s business operations (unless such access is expressly permitted for the specific program license or materials from the services you have acquired); • cause or permit reverse engineering (unless required by law for interoperability), disassembly or decompilation of the programs; or • disclose results of any program benchmark tests without Oracle’s prior written consent.
- FireBeyond 12y ago
  Disclose to whom, though? It doesn't specify 'externally' to your company, 'publish' or 'to any other person'.

zerr 12y ago

Apple also forbids virtualising OSX on non-Apple hardware. So you can't run your OSX (which e.g. you bought legally) on VMware on Windows PC. So yes, formally this is illegal, but it is about common sense - when you feel that it is wrong to forbid such things - you happily "break" "law"...

lmz 12y ago
Tying the OS to the hardware is not exactly Apple-specific. If I bought a laptop with Windows preinstalled (an OEM license) I can't activate that on different hardware either. Saying "I bought that" to the support line would likely get me laughed at. If you bought OS X for non-Apple hardware, it has never been able to run there unmodified. It would be like complaining that my PS4 game doesn't run on the XBox One.
- zerr 12y ago
  > It would be like complaining that my PS4 game doesn't run on the XBox One. Actually Apple tries to convert regular computer users to these kind of Console or Home Microwave users. They want us to have less and less control over our own devices and software. So yes, we break their licenses, but as I mentioned when we have to choose between a common sense vs counter-common-sense law - we choose the former one.

fulafel 12y ago

Most people don't feel morally bound to strictly follow software click through "agreements".