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In a world where people copyright the laws you are supposed to follow I can't imagine they won't let people copyright an API that absolutely is a creative work.

In a world where people copyright the laws you are supposed to follow I can't imagine they won't let people copyright an API that absolutely is a creative work. Instead we should accept that they can be under copyright but make implementing and using them explicitly fair use.

aragot 12y ago
> copyright the laws That's an excellent point. If you run a service, you can use someone else's TOS and apply it to your customers. It is the outcome of intellectual work, for instance a lawyer's work, and it is under copyright. However, it is not clever to reuse someone else's contract anyway and you'd better use a lawyer to check its terms. Therefore I don't think the wording of contracts, norms, standards and laws should fall under copyright/patent. Think about a US law writer prosecuting Germany for "a law which proceeds the same way as one which was established in US" under patent infringement.
- charonn0 12y ago
  Government work products like statutory text is not typically protected by copyright. I think spullara was referring to model law codes written by private organizations and adopted verbatim by legislatures. This isn't necessarily bad (fire safety experts writing a model fire code, e.g.) but it does have the effect of putting the law under copyright.
- jrochkind1 12y ago
  Whatever you may think the wording of contracts [etc] pretty clearly falls under copyright protection in the US. The wording. What does not (or has not before) are the _meanings_. You in fact, can't, under US law, take someone elses TOS and just plain copy it. I'm not sure if you meant to say "can't" instead of "can" in your comment -- but in fact, you pretty clearly can't just copy the text of the TOS. What you can do is write your own TOS based on the exact same categories of allowed and unallowed behavior. > Think about a US law writer prosecuting Germany for "a law which proceeds the same way as one which was established in US" under patent infringement. Are you talking about patent or copyright? Two entirely different laws, which protect different things in different ways. You could -- quite clearly and uncontroversially -- _not_ accuse someone else of "proceeding the same way" and thus violating your copyright. Copyright simply doesn't protect "ways of proceeding". If you could get some government to issue you a patent on your law (which I don't _think_ you could, but who knows these days in the U.S. which seems happy to issue a patent on nearly anything), then you might be succesful in a patent infringement case. Patent and copyright are entirely different things. If they copied the exact text of your law, then that might be a copyright violation. Copying the "proceeding the same way"? The sorts of things you want to regulate or prohibit and the nature of the penalties or whatever? Nope. Copryight simply does not go there. (The fact that in the U.S., nothing created by the federal government is protected by copyright anyway -- is really a side-issue, something unique to U.S. law, and not really relevant to the present topic, although it is a thing).
  - aragot 12y ago
    Correct, I meant "can't".
jobu 12y ago
Book Titles are not copyrightable, even though they are arguably the most important part of a creative work. While APIs are not a clear analog to titles, they are a huge exception to the copyright law, and it seems like APIs need this exception as well.
- talideon 12y ago
  They can, however, be trademarked.
  - whafro 12y ago
    Sure, but only once the title has attained secondary meaning over and above the words in the title. Basically, it has to be beyond the level of a bestseller. Most book titles don't come anywhere close.
- Fargren 12y ago
  So if I were to write a book named A Game of Thrones, under the pen name George R. R. Martin, would it be permissible by law to publish it?
  - raldi 12y ago
    As far as copyright law is concerned, yes. However, you would be in violation of trademark law.
- monkeyninja 12y ago
  API is more like the table of content of a book, not titles. Titles would be like the website name.

aragot 12y ago

> copyright the laws That's an excellent point. If you run a service, you can use someone else's TOS and apply it to your customers. It is the outcome of intellectual work, for instance a lawyer's work, and it is under copyright. However, it is not clever to reuse someone else's contract anyway and you'd better use a lawyer to check its terms. Therefore I don't think the wording of contracts, norms, standards and laws should fall under copyright/patent. Think about a US law writer prosecuting Germany for "a law which proceeds the same way as one which was established in US" under patent infringement.

charonn0 12y ago
Government work products like statutory text is not typically protected by copyright. I think spullara was referring to model law codes written by private organizations and adopted verbatim by legislatures. This isn't necessarily bad (fire safety experts writing a model fire code, e.g.) but it does have the effect of putting the law under copyright.
jrochkind1 12y ago
Whatever you may think the wording of contracts [etc] pretty clearly falls under copyright protection in the US. The wording. What does not (or has not before) are the _meanings_. You in fact, can't, under US law, take someone elses TOS and just plain copy it. I'm not sure if you meant to say "can't" instead of "can" in your comment -- but in fact, you pretty clearly can't just copy the text of the TOS. What you can do is write your own TOS based on the exact same categories of allowed and unallowed behavior. > Think about a US law writer prosecuting Germany for "a law which proceeds the same way as one which was established in US" under patent infringement. Are you talking about patent or copyright? Two entirely different laws, which protect different things in different ways. You could -- quite clearly and uncontroversially -- _not_ accuse someone else of "proceeding the same way" and thus violating your copyright. Copyright simply doesn't protect "ways of proceeding". If you could get some government to issue you a patent on your law (which I don't _think_ you could, but who knows these days in the U.S. which seems happy to issue a patent on nearly anything), then you might be succesful in a patent infringement case. Patent and copyright are entirely different things. If they copied the exact text of your law, then that might be a copyright violation. Copying the "proceeding the same way"? The sorts of things you want to regulate or prohibit and the nature of the penalties or whatever? Nope. Copryight simply does not go there. (The fact that in the U.S., nothing created by the federal government is protected by copyright anyway -- is really a side-issue, something unique to U.S. law, and not really relevant to the present topic, although it is a thing).
- aragot 12y ago
  Correct, I meant "can't".

jobu 12y ago

Book Titles are not copyrightable, even though they are arguably the most important part of a creative work. While APIs are not a clear analog to titles, they are a huge exception to the copyright law, and it seems like APIs need this exception as well.

talideon 12y ago
They can, however, be trademarked.
- whafro 12y ago
  Sure, but only once the title has attained secondary meaning over and above the words in the title. Basically, it has to be beyond the level of a bestseller. Most book titles don't come anywhere close.
Fargren 12y ago
So if I were to write a book named A Game of Thrones, under the pen name George R. R. Martin, would it be permissible by law to publish it?
- raldi 12y ago
  As far as copyright law is concerned, yes. However, you would be in violation of trademark law.
monkeyninja 12y ago
API is more like the table of content of a book, not titles. Titles would be like the website name.