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I posted this a few days ago: https://twitter.com/JeremyCMorgan/status/529727399353937922 https://twitter.com/JeremyCMorgan/status/529727399353937922 I was cu

I posted this a few days ago: https://twitter.com/JeremyCMorgan/status/529727399353937922 https://twitter.com/JeremyCMorgan/status/529727399353937922 I was curious because of the differences in the U vs M processor so I went into Best Buy and ran Geekbench on one. I know CPU isn't everything... but what exactly would be a reason for putting a power saving CPU in something that's plugged into the wall? My current Mini already uses far less power than any of my old stand up PCs of the past. I'm kind of puzzled what the selling point to the Mini is now. At first it was an affordable Mac for those who don't have the money (or want to spend the money) for a pro, but at this point it seems to just be an underpowered box you can't upgrade for roughly the same price as a macbook air or better powered PC.

Osmium 12y ago
> but what exactly would be a reason for putting a power saving CPU in something that's plugged into the wall? Devil's advocate, but I imagine it'd do huge things to the country's energy bill if everyone's computer was as energy efficient as new Core U-based computers.
- jarek 12y ago
  It really wouldn't. Your fridge's power usage eclipses any computer you might have, short of a hardcore overclocked rig running Folding 24/7. To say nothing of electric stoves, A/C and heating, or industrial electricity usage. Hell, at the 20-30 W levels of lighter-powered computers, a couple of light bulbs might make a bigger difference.
  - mikeyouse 12y ago
    All of those things you listed are used only intermittently which dramatically reduces their consumption. Many computers are on 24/7, especially Mac Minis and other things used for media servers. There was a good article recently about the insane energy demand from DVRs -- they use more energy than any other home appliance, excepting air conditioning used in hot climates. http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-power-hog-20140617-story.html#page=1 http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-power-hog-20140617-story...
    - jarek 12y ago
      > they use more energy than any other home appliance, excepting air conditioning used in hot climates. Hmm... the graph shows 35 W. This standard full-size fridge http://www.danby.com/en/US/our_products/refrigeration/dff100a2bsldb http://www.danby.com/en/US/our_products/refrigeration/dff100... is rated for 375.6 kWh yearly, that is 42.9 W average. A mostly-idle Mac mini specced around 20-30 W would use well under 10 W on average. Certainly it sounds like DVRs need to improve.
  - keithpeter 12y ago
    Roughly 260 kWh for 1 year of 30w on all the time (30 x 24 x 365 /1000). That assumes the media server is using 30w all the time. Probably half or a quarter of that (based on no data). Call it 100kWh. My electric hotplate takes 3kW used for around 10 min a day for moka pot roughly 180kWh (3/6 * 365). So not tiny but not huge either. I might try to estimate the on/off cycle time of the fridge. I suspect that the kWh figure will be large!
    - Osmium 12y ago
      Thanks for running the numbers. The important question is how many personal computers are currently switched on at this exact moment? What's a small improvement to one person can make a huge difference nationally. Just because there are other devices that use yet more energy still (e.g. kettles, fridges, vacuum cleaners, etc.) doesn't mean there shouldn't be a drive for increased efficiency in all our electric devices where possible (in my personal opinion).
      - jarek 12y ago
        > The important question is how many personal computers are currently switched on at this exact moment? Less than the fridges switched on. Here's a standard fridge Walmart sells for $449: http://www.danby.com/en/US/our_products/refrigeration/dff100a2bsldb http://www.danby.com/en/US/our_products/refrigeration/dff100... The EnergyGuide says it's estimated for 375.6 kWh yearly. That's an average of 42.9 W, including the times it's plugged in but idle. Then keep in mind that a "30 W" computer will use much less than that in idle, where it'll be for 90+% of the time. Including auto-sleep, which Macs are good at, you'll be well below 10 W on average. > doesn't mean there shouldn't be a drive for increased efficiency in all our electric devices where possible (in my personal opinion). Absolutely, but replacing one energy-efficient sub-30 W CPU with another slightly more efficient CPU won't do huge things to the country's energy bill.
jws 12y ago
Power=heat. If you want a tiny box without a lot of fan noise you need to watch your power. I think the point of the Mini is "good enough for many people". And great for them. No sense buying RAM sockets you will never use, solder it down. That's a cheaper and more reliable connection. Most people who purchase a mini never upgrade RAM or persistent storage. Remember that if you are posting on HN, you are an anomaly and live surrounded by similar anomalies so you may not realize it.
- danieldk 12y ago
  Remember that if you are posting on HN, you are an anomaly and live surrounded by similar anomalies so you may not realize it. Most non-technical Mac users that I know have MacBooks (having worked in a linguistics faculty, I knew many). The only Mac Mini users that I know are actually techies. Edit: of course, in the end it does not really matter. The Mac Mini is probably a tiny slice of the total number of Macs sold. For other models people (including me) already accept paying much extra for upgrades.
  - jws 12y ago
    It occurs that I may have an observer bias, since I only see someone's mini if I am in their office or house, but can see their laptop many places. I was going to use Amazon's Best Sellers to try to ferret out how few Mac Minis really get sold compared to iMacs and laptops. At least at this moment, Mac Minis are the best selling Mac. No doubt from fence sitters waiting for an announcement, but interesting none the less. #12 Entry level Mini #21 Middle iMac #30 Middle Mini #34 Low end iMac #42 Whiz-bang 5k iMac #50 2012 Mac Mini (quad core coveters) #80 High end Mini #87 Ancient, used 17" iMac. Really? sort of in the weeds here. #100 2012 Mini, but volume must be near zero to be under that iMac.

Osmium 12y ago

> but what exactly would be a reason for putting a power saving CPU in something that's plugged into the wall? Devil's advocate, but I imagine it'd do huge things to the country's energy bill if everyone's computer was as energy efficient as new Core U-based computers.

jarek 12y ago
It really wouldn't. Your fridge's power usage eclipses any computer you might have, short of a hardcore overclocked rig running Folding 24/7. To say nothing of electric stoves, A/C and heating, or industrial electricity usage. Hell, at the 20-30 W levels of lighter-powered computers, a couple of light bulbs might make a bigger difference.
- mikeyouse 12y ago
  All of those things you listed are used only intermittently which dramatically reduces their consumption. Many computers are on 24/7, especially Mac Minis and other things used for media servers. There was a good article recently about the insane energy demand from DVRs -- they use more energy than any other home appliance, excepting air conditioning used in hot climates. http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-power-hog-20140617-story.html#page=1 http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-power-hog-20140617-story...
  - jarek 12y ago
    > they use more energy than any other home appliance, excepting air conditioning used in hot climates. Hmm... the graph shows 35 W. This standard full-size fridge http://www.danby.com/en/US/our_products/refrigeration/dff100a2bsldb http://www.danby.com/en/US/our_products/refrigeration/dff100... is rated for 375.6 kWh yearly, that is 42.9 W average. A mostly-idle Mac mini specced around 20-30 W would use well under 10 W on average. Certainly it sounds like DVRs need to improve.
- keithpeter 12y ago
  Roughly 260 kWh for 1 year of 30w on all the time (30 x 24 x 365 /1000). That assumes the media server is using 30w all the time. Probably half or a quarter of that (based on no data). Call it 100kWh. My electric hotplate takes 3kW used for around 10 min a day for moka pot roughly 180kWh (3/6 * 365). So not tiny but not huge either. I might try to estimate the on/off cycle time of the fridge. I suspect that the kWh figure will be large!
  - Osmium 12y ago
    Thanks for running the numbers. The important question is how many personal computers are currently switched on at this exact moment? What's a small improvement to one person can make a huge difference nationally. Just because there are other devices that use yet more energy still (e.g. kettles, fridges, vacuum cleaners, etc.) doesn't mean there shouldn't be a drive for increased efficiency in all our electric devices where possible (in my personal opinion).
    - jarek 12y ago
      > The important question is how many personal computers are currently switched on at this exact moment? Less than the fridges switched on. Here's a standard fridge Walmart sells for $449: http://www.danby.com/en/US/our_products/refrigeration/dff100a2bsldb http://www.danby.com/en/US/our_products/refrigeration/dff100... The EnergyGuide says it's estimated for 375.6 kWh yearly. That's an average of 42.9 W, including the times it's plugged in but idle. Then keep in mind that a "30 W" computer will use much less than that in idle, where it'll be for 90+% of the time. Including auto-sleep, which Macs are good at, you'll be well below 10 W on average. > doesn't mean there shouldn't be a drive for increased efficiency in all our electric devices where possible (in my personal opinion). Absolutely, but replacing one energy-efficient sub-30 W CPU with another slightly more efficient CPU won't do huge things to the country's energy bill.

jws 12y ago

Power=heat. If you want a tiny box without a lot of fan noise you need to watch your power. I think the point of the Mini is "good enough for many people". And great for them. No sense buying RAM sockets you will never use, solder it down. That's a cheaper and more reliable connection. Most people who purchase a mini never upgrade RAM or persistent storage. Remember that if you are posting on HN, you are an anomaly and live surrounded by similar anomalies so you may not realize it.

danieldk 12y ago
Remember that if you are posting on HN, you are an anomaly and live surrounded by similar anomalies so you may not realize it. Most non-technical Mac users that I know have MacBooks (having worked in a linguistics faculty, I knew many). The only Mac Mini users that I know are actually techies. Edit: of course, in the end it does not really matter. The Mac Mini is probably a tiny slice of the total number of Macs sold. For other models people (including me) already accept paying much extra for upgrades.
- jws 12y ago
  It occurs that I may have an observer bias, since I only see someone's mini if I am in their office or house, but can see their laptop many places. I was going to use Amazon's Best Sellers to try to ferret out how few Mac Minis really get sold compared to iMacs and laptops. At least at this moment, Mac Minis are the best selling Mac. No doubt from fence sitters waiting for an announcement, but interesting none the less. #12 Entry level Mini #21 Middle iMac #30 Middle Mini #34 Low end iMac #42 Whiz-bang 5k iMac #50 2012 Mac Mini (quad core coveters) #80 High end Mini #87 Ancient, used 17" iMac. Really? sort of in the weeds here. #100 2012 Mini, but volume must be near zero to be under that iMac.