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Comparing Steve Jobs to Larry Ellison is ridiculous, so it's obvious you've got no idea what you're talking about or you're de-valuing the role of a founder/exe

Comparing Steve Jobs to Larry Ellison is ridiculous, so it's obvious you've got no idea what you're talking about or you're de-valuing the role of a founder/executive to the point where they're just some figurehead. Jobs built both Apple and Pixar, two companies with enormous influence in their respective fields. Those companies have organizational structures that are radically different, each one optimized towards their business and core ethos. Ellison built Oracle, an interchangeable enterprise software company, and a World Cup team. Impressive but not nearly the same league.

Alupis 12y ago
A nit-pick -- Jobs bought Pixar, then let them do their thing with minimal oversight. Pixar was great because they were great. They just needed funding. > Ellison built Oracle, an interchangeable enterprise software company You may view Oracle as simply interchangeable and expendable, but in their respective space they dominate. They don't sell "sexy" products to consumers no, but as we've seen with all consumer-faced companies -- their time comes and goes -- while enterprise is constant. Do you even know Ellison's story? It's far more inspirational than most other tech titan CEO's. It's the rags to riches story, and now he owns an island, world class sailing team, one of the world's largest yachts, and one of the largest enterprise-space companies in the world. Really the cliche "American Dream"
- melling 12y ago
  Just another nick-pick. You're wrong here too. Jobs created Pixar: http://alvyray.com/Pixar/PixarMyth1.htm http://alvyray.com/Pixar/PixarMyth1.htm "A new spinout corporation from Lucasfilm, called Pixar, was capitalized with $10 million from Steve Jobs." "Eventually, by about 1991, he owned 100% of Pixar at a total investment of $50 million." And Jobs was the CEO of Pixar. By the way, my facts are from one of the co-founders of Pixar: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvy_Ray_Smith http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvy_Ray_Smith I suppose we don't give Bill Gates credit for his foundation either? Everyone else is doing all the work. It's just his vision and money.
  - Alupis 12y ago
    It's funny how you pick and chose parts of history to make your point. Jobs did not found Pixar -- he bought the company (under a different name then changed to Pixar) from Lucas Film. He was not the CEO, he was chairman of the board and famously had very little to do with their day-to-day activities -- he really just let them do their thing. He almost sold Pixar multiple times because they were not the home-run company he had hope for, until Toy Story. He slowly bought shares back from employees and the actual founders until he owned almost 100% of the company (making his total investment $50 million). Then he sold the company off to Disney. Jobs was the check book for Pixar -- he didn't make them great, they were great all along. They just had no product and no capital for a long period of time. He gave them the chance to succeed, and for that he should get credit. But he wasn't some sort of creative mastermind genius that turned Pixar into what is became. In any regard, we've gone into the weeds. As I said multiple posts ago, I'm never going to change your mind. Apple sold products you like as a consumer, and therefore you like the person at the helm. Personally, I think there are far better businessman examples all over, some I've mentioned already, others are like the guy in Napa Valley, CA making $2 billion a year selling wine corks.
    - melling 12y ago
      Steve was someone I threw out as a person who had multiple acts. I threw out Elon as an example on this page too. We are not trying to solve who the best business man is? After all, what would any of that have to do with the Woz? If you want to compare a $2 billion business to one of the most valuable companies in the world, we could be here all day. By the way, I based my claim that Jobs was CEO of Pixar based on the co-founder of Pixar, and other facts I found on the Internet. Can you provide some facts to show that I'm wrong? http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvy_Ray_Smith http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvy_Ray_Smith http://alvyray.com/Pixar/PixarMyth1.htm http://alvyray.com/Pixar/PixarMyth1.htm
      - Alupis 12y ago
        If we take it back to the original point - it was that the true innovators were the engineers hidden away at Apple; Woz was/is one of them. Before Job's passing, he made some very famous exclamations of things Apple would never do. 1) Never will have a small form factor tablet 2) Never will have a large form factor phone 3) Never will produce "cheap" plastic-component phones 4) Never will embrace NFC Towards the end, as we can very clearly now see, Jobs stood in the way of his team and innovation. Every single one of the things he said Apple will never do, they have done. And as we can see, they have been very successful with each line item. In fact, they've sold more iPhones now than ever during his tenure. Jobs could put together a management team -- but he couldn't produce a product. During his first tenure at Apple, the company produced some of the worst garbage the world has ever seen from a modern company. It wasn't until his second chance that his management team finally got the right engineers hired. Like I said earlier, Jony Ive wasn't even a Jobs hire - Ive almost left apple when Jobs returned! His management team were the ones that put together the engineering team and production teams -- and ultimately turned Apple into what they are today. People like Woz deserve the credit Jobs takes and gets. ~ regarding your question about pixar, the information is readily available on their wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixar

Alupis 12y ago

A nit-pick -- Jobs bought Pixar, then let them do their thing with minimal oversight. Pixar was great because they were great. They just needed funding. > Ellison built Oracle, an interchangeable enterprise software company You may view Oracle as simply interchangeable and expendable, but in their respective space they dominate. They don't sell "sexy" products to consumers no, but as we've seen with all consumer-faced companies -- their time comes and goes -- while enterprise is constant. Do you even know Ellison's story? It's far more inspirational than most other tech titan CEO's. It's the rags to riches story, and now he owns an island, world class sailing team, one of the world's largest yachts, and one of the largest enterprise-space companies in the world. Really the cliche "American Dream"

melling 12y ago
Just another nick-pick. You're wrong here too. Jobs created Pixar: http://alvyray.com/Pixar/PixarMyth1.htm http://alvyray.com/Pixar/PixarMyth1.htm "A new spinout corporation from Lucasfilm, called Pixar, was capitalized with $10 million from Steve Jobs." "Eventually, by about 1991, he owned 100% of Pixar at a total investment of $50 million." And Jobs was the CEO of Pixar. By the way, my facts are from one of the co-founders of Pixar: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvy_Ray_Smith http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvy_Ray_Smith I suppose we don't give Bill Gates credit for his foundation either? Everyone else is doing all the work. It's just his vision and money.
- Alupis 12y ago
  It's funny how you pick and chose parts of history to make your point. Jobs did not found Pixar -- he bought the company (under a different name then changed to Pixar) from Lucas Film. He was not the CEO, he was chairman of the board and famously had very little to do with their day-to-day activities -- he really just let them do their thing. He almost sold Pixar multiple times because they were not the home-run company he had hope for, until Toy Story. He slowly bought shares back from employees and the actual founders until he owned almost 100% of the company (making his total investment $50 million). Then he sold the company off to Disney. Jobs was the check book for Pixar -- he didn't make them great, they were great all along. They just had no product and no capital for a long period of time. He gave them the chance to succeed, and for that he should get credit. But he wasn't some sort of creative mastermind genius that turned Pixar into what is became. In any regard, we've gone into the weeds. As I said multiple posts ago, I'm never going to change your mind. Apple sold products you like as a consumer, and therefore you like the person at the helm. Personally, I think there are far better businessman examples all over, some I've mentioned already, others are like the guy in Napa Valley, CA making $2 billion a year selling wine corks.
  - melling 12y ago
    Steve was someone I threw out as a person who had multiple acts. I threw out Elon as an example on this page too. We are not trying to solve who the best business man is? After all, what would any of that have to do with the Woz? If you want to compare a $2 billion business to one of the most valuable companies in the world, we could be here all day. By the way, I based my claim that Jobs was CEO of Pixar based on the co-founder of Pixar, and other facts I found on the Internet. Can you provide some facts to show that I'm wrong? http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvy_Ray_Smith http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvy_Ray_Smith http://alvyray.com/Pixar/PixarMyth1.htm http://alvyray.com/Pixar/PixarMyth1.htm
    - Alupis 12y ago
      If we take it back to the original point - it was that the true innovators were the engineers hidden away at Apple; Woz was/is one of them. Before Job's passing, he made some very famous exclamations of things Apple would never do. 1) Never will have a small form factor tablet 2) Never will have a large form factor phone 3) Never will produce "cheap" plastic-component phones 4) Never will embrace NFC Towards the end, as we can very clearly now see, Jobs stood in the way of his team and innovation. Every single one of the things he said Apple will never do, they have done. And as we can see, they have been very successful with each line item. In fact, they've sold more iPhones now than ever during his tenure. Jobs could put together a management team -- but he couldn't produce a product. During his first tenure at Apple, the company produced some of the worst garbage the world has ever seen from a modern company. It wasn't until his second chance that his management team finally got the right engineers hired. Like I said earlier, Jony Ive wasn't even a Jobs hire - Ive almost left apple when Jobs returned! His management team were the ones that put together the engineering team and production teams -- and ultimately turned Apple into what they are today. People like Woz deserve the credit Jobs takes and gets. ~ regarding your question about pixar, the information is readily available on their wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixar