5 ms·

It's really nice to hear such a personal, candid take on the need for diversity. It's a refreshing change from the politically-charged generalities you often se

It's really nice to hear such a personal, candid take on the need for diversity. It's a refreshing change from the politically-charged generalities you often see written by your typical white male twentysomething in the tech industry when they write about diversity. Sharing these kinds of concrete, lifelong experiences really drives home the point of why it's necessary: it's not diversity for its own sake, it's for the sake of not alienating people like our author here, people who undoubtedly have a lot to contribute.

potatolicious 12y ago
Indeed. I dislike the narrative that diversity is somehow desirable because it results in [better products|more productivity|better team cohesion], among many other cited reasons. These may be true, but it misses the point: personal dignity is a worthwhile goal in and of itself. I get that spinning it as a "this is scientifically better and has capitalistic/rationalistic superior outcomes" may be necessary to appeal to the self-described rationalists in our industry for whom "because people feel like shit in this environment" doesn't even register. But it does feel wrong.
- JoshTriplett 12y ago
  Seems a lot like the difference between "Free Software" and "Open Source": does the target audience care about this on principle for its own sake, or do you have to spin it as producing a better product?
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- Mangalor 12y ago
  > These may be true, but it misses the point: personal dignity is a worthwhile goal in and of itself. As a black engineer, seeing this maxim put into words really felt like lifting a weight off my shoulders. It's like, why should we have to "sell" ourselves to the majority in order to maintain a job? It's 2014, not 1914, we should be included regardless.
  - thanatropism 12y ago
    Everyone "sells" themselves to the "majority" in order to make things work. There's too much of a "precious tulip" assumption here - I'm sure you're a great person and all your friends love you, but you just can't be 100% quirks and doodads at work. Source: white, will-die-from-lithium-poisoning bipolar, has to keep it together to make it work at... work.
    - potatolicious 12y ago
      > "but you just can't be 100% quirks and doodads at work." Being black is "quirks and doodads" now?
      - lsaferite 12y ago
        Here, let me help you out: > As a bipolar engineer, seeing this maxim put into words really felt like lifting a weight off my shoulders. It's like, why should we have to "sell" ourselves to the majority in order to maintain a job? It's 2014, not 1914, we should be included regardless.
    - Mangalor 12y ago
      I'm not sure what you're arguing here exactly. If you're white you're in the racial majority. If you think having darker skin means someone is "100% quirks and doodads" then obviously I wouldn't want to have to "sell" myself to someone like you because the effort would be futile.
      - lsaferite 12y ago
        If you don't know a bipolar person I can see your confusion. Knowing a few I can say they quite often do not "fit it" with the norm, even if they are racially similar. Conformity happens on may levels. Racial conformity is an obvious one due to it being visual. Social conformity is a bit less visible but just as "important" in most cases.
        12y ago
nailer 12y ago
Do white male twenty somethings generally write about diversity? Every one I've seen who's expressed an opinion asides from 'my opinions don't matter' gets routinely slaughtered regardless of their views.
- rodgerd 12y ago
  I can't imagine why people might feel that the opinions of white men might be well respresented already.
  - anaximander 12y ago
    What about that individual's opinion? Or do you mean to say that because of their gender and race, they already conform to your stereotype?
    - x0x0 12y ago
      Non-white people already often feel like they are spoken over. The world does not suffer for a lack of opinions on anything from white people -- it's fair to say such opinions are even overrepresented in the world of available writing. If people already well-represented care about diversity, they should help some of the not-well-represented speak up.
  - mcav 12y ago
    The opinions of one group do not represent the individuals therein.
  - EdwardDiego 12y ago
    So all white men hold the same opinion? Or is there a finite number of opinions capable of being held by white men, and all of them are represented adequately in print? Weird statement, either way.
    - Mangalor 12y ago
      It's not weird. If we were deciding between green shoes or pink shoes and all we heard were opinions from people who own green shoes, it would be weird. Does that mean all green shoed people think the same? No. But clearly we'd like to hear from everyone to make an informed decision.
peteretep 12y ago
I think it feels genuine, uneditorialized, and a statement of facts, rather than an article trying to further an agenda.
- AlexandrB 12y ago
  The article has a pretty clear agenda: > I don’t need to change to fit within my industry. My industry needs to change to make everyone feel included and accepted. Moreover, articles that "don't try to further an agenda" are often furthering and normalizing the status-quo.
  - Karunamon 12y ago
    That is some McCarthyist nonsense, right there. Not everyone that disagrees with you is against you.
    - pyrocat 12y ago
      That's not what they said.
    - seanflyon 12y ago
      Are people who disagree with you often against you?
      - Mangalor 12y ago
        If you're in a supportive environment where freedom of thought and debate are allowed, then no, people aren't usually against you just because of the ideas you hold.
  - stcredzero 12y ago
    I don’t need to change to fit within my industry. My industry needs to change to make everyone feel included and accepted. Human cultures in general just aren't that good at making different people feel at home. Given our history, why in the world would we expect any of them to be good at that at all? The natural inclination is to make the different individual, the outgroup person, conform to group norms. The way human cultures have dealt with our typically primate social instincts is to accede to them. The way we are with regard to our instincts and typical behaviors around groups is woven into our culture and the way we think. Also consider: We've probably been evolving our group instincts for far longer than we've had language. What would that imply about how deeply ingrained and how conscious such behaviors are? Now, given that the above is true, what rationale can you come up with that would lead us to believe that our cultural knowledge equips us to deal well with diversity? Actually, I don't even think the "mental furnishings" in academic writings around these subjects that I've been exposed to are very useful to everyday people in everyday situations. (I could cite your suspicion around agendas to be evidence in this regard.) If there is any community that has the potential to engage in the "meta-level" self examination required to develop mental tools for dealing with this, I propose that certain subsets of the tech community are good candidates. (Though there is a lot of groupthink there as well.)

potatolicious 12y ago

Indeed. I dislike the narrative that diversity is somehow desirable because it results in [better products|more productivity|better team cohesion], among many other cited reasons. These may be true, but it misses the point: personal dignity is a worthwhile goal in and of itself. I get that spinning it as a "this is scientifically better and has capitalistic/rationalistic superior outcomes" may be necessary to appeal to the self-described rationalists in our industry for whom "because people feel like shit in this environment" doesn't even register. But it does feel wrong.

JoshTriplett 12y ago
Seems a lot like the difference between "Free Software" and "Open Source": does the target audience care about this on principle for its own sake, or do you have to spin it as producing a better product?
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
Mangalor 12y ago
> These may be true, but it misses the point: personal dignity is a worthwhile goal in and of itself. As a black engineer, seeing this maxim put into words really felt like lifting a weight off my shoulders. It's like, why should we have to "sell" ourselves to the majority in order to maintain a job? It's 2014, not 1914, we should be included regardless.
- thanatropism 12y ago
  Everyone "sells" themselves to the "majority" in order to make things work. There's too much of a "precious tulip" assumption here - I'm sure you're a great person and all your friends love you, but you just can't be 100% quirks and doodads at work. Source: white, will-die-from-lithium-poisoning bipolar, has to keep it together to make it work at... work.
  - potatolicious 12y ago
    > "but you just can't be 100% quirks and doodads at work." Being black is "quirks and doodads" now?
    - lsaferite 12y ago
      Here, let me help you out: > As a bipolar engineer, seeing this maxim put into words really felt like lifting a weight off my shoulders. It's like, why should we have to "sell" ourselves to the majority in order to maintain a job? It's 2014, not 1914, we should be included regardless.
  - Mangalor 12y ago
    I'm not sure what you're arguing here exactly. If you're white you're in the racial majority. If you think having darker skin means someone is "100% quirks and doodads" then obviously I wouldn't want to have to "sell" myself to someone like you because the effort would be futile.
    - lsaferite 12y ago
      If you don't know a bipolar person I can see your confusion. Knowing a few I can say they quite often do not "fit it" with the norm, even if they are racially similar. Conformity happens on may levels. Racial conformity is an obvious one due to it being visual. Social conformity is a bit less visible but just as "important" in most cases.
      - 12y ago

nailer 12y ago

Do white male twenty somethings generally write about diversity? Every one I've seen who's expressed an opinion asides from 'my opinions don't matter' gets routinely slaughtered regardless of their views.

rodgerd 12y ago
I can't imagine why people might feel that the opinions of white men might be well respresented already.
- anaximander 12y ago
  What about that individual's opinion? Or do you mean to say that because of their gender and race, they already conform to your stereotype?
  - x0x0 12y ago
    Non-white people already often feel like they are spoken over. The world does not suffer for a lack of opinions on anything from white people -- it's fair to say such opinions are even overrepresented in the world of available writing. If people already well-represented care about diversity, they should help some of the not-well-represented speak up.
- mcav 12y ago
  The opinions of one group do not represent the individuals therein.
- EdwardDiego 12y ago
  So all white men hold the same opinion? Or is there a finite number of opinions capable of being held by white men, and all of them are represented adequately in print? Weird statement, either way.
  - Mangalor 12y ago
    It's not weird. If we were deciding between green shoes or pink shoes and all we heard were opinions from people who own green shoes, it would be weird. Does that mean all green shoed people think the same? No. But clearly we'd like to hear from everyone to make an informed decision.

peteretep 12y ago

I think it feels genuine, uneditorialized, and a statement of facts, rather than an article trying to further an agenda.

AlexandrB 12y ago
The article has a pretty clear agenda: > I don’t need to change to fit within my industry. My industry needs to change to make everyone feel included and accepted. Moreover, articles that "don't try to further an agenda" are often furthering and normalizing the status-quo.
- Karunamon 12y ago
  That is some McCarthyist nonsense, right there. Not everyone that disagrees with you is against you.
  - pyrocat 12y ago
    That's not what they said.
  - seanflyon 12y ago
    Are people who disagree with you often against you?
    - Mangalor 12y ago
      If you're in a supportive environment where freedom of thought and debate are allowed, then no, people aren't usually against you just because of the ideas you hold.
- stcredzero 12y ago
  I don’t need to change to fit within my industry. My industry needs to change to make everyone feel included and accepted. Human cultures in general just aren't that good at making different people feel at home. Given our history, why in the world would we expect any of them to be good at that at all? The natural inclination is to make the different individual, the outgroup person, conform to group norms. The way human cultures have dealt with our typically primate social instincts is to accede to them. The way we are with regard to our instincts and typical behaviors around groups is woven into our culture and the way we think. Also consider: We've probably been evolving our group instincts for far longer than we've had language. What would that imply about how deeply ingrained and how conscious such behaviors are? Now, given that the above is true, what rationale can you come up with that would lead us to believe that our cultural knowledge equips us to deal well with diversity? Actually, I don't even think the "mental furnishings" in academic writings around these subjects that I've been exposed to are very useful to everyday people in everyday situations. (I could cite your suspicion around agendas to be evidence in this regard.) If there is any community that has the potential to engage in the "meta-level" self examination required to develop mental tools for dealing with this, I propose that certain subsets of the tech community are good candidates. (Though there is a lot of groupthink there as well.)