4 ms·

Only the top tier do, takes some low pay grinding to get there

eli_gottlieb 12y ago
By the standards of academia, that is completely untrue. When I graduated with a BSc Computer Science degree in 2011, the median starting salary for CS grads going to industry was $65k. For comparison, that's roughly the starting salary for someone who just got a tenure-track position in academia (source: http://www.higheredjobs.com/salary/salaryDisplay.cfm?SurveyID=24 http://www.higheredjobs.com/salary/salaryDisplay.cfm?SurveyI...). So compare: in one field, you start earning a median $65k at age 22 with only a bachelor's degree, and in the other, you start earning $65k in your mid to late thirties, after a bachelor's, a PhD, and often at least one post-doc. Everything before that is "low-pay grinding", except that the academic definition of "low-pay" ranges from lower-middle class ($25k-$30k for the better-paid grad-students and worse-paid post-docs) to taking on debt (the humanities).
- wavefunction 12y ago
  >>So compare: in one field, you start earning a median $65k at age 22 A median means that half the CS grads made less than 65k. Tenure track also comes with some eventual benefits you won't receive with a bachelor's in CS. Let's be clear about what we're actually comparing.
  - 8557056 12y ago
    >> A median means that half the CS grads made less than 65k. This is false. For example, X% could make exactly 65k and only the lower ((100 - X) / 2)% would make less. ...where X \in (0, 100]
    - Crito 12y ago
      I doubt many people at all are making exactly $65k. However I also doubt that many CS grads at all are making significantly less than $65k. Those that are making appreciably less than that are almost certainly not working in the field, or they are not working in the US. I wager that the salary distribution of CS grads working in the field in the US is pretty damn tight.
      - Retric 12y ago
        My first programming job in northern VA in 2002 paid 38k and I had a CS degree. I suspect most people make less than 65k because the few at 120+k take many people at 40k to balance things out. Granted, the job market was crap and I make 6 figures now, but there are still plenty of sub 40k programming jobs out there and people happy to take them.
        im2w1l 12y ago
        > I suspect most people make less than 65k because the few at 120+k take many people at 40k to balance things out. That's not how medians work
        Retric 12y ago
        Garbage in Garbage out Your assuming salaries are not inflated and that the ratio of people reporting salaries is constant at all income ranges and the reported numbers are accurate. I doubt any of those are true. So, IMO to observe a 65k median suggests the actual median is below 65k. PS: Don't forget grad students count as recent CS grads and there generally not making anywhere close to 65K.
- gambiting 12y ago
  Country specific. I've got a Masters degree in CS, work for a company which employs over 6000 programmers worldwide, work in UK, and as a Junior programmer I started with 18k pounds/annum(~28k us dollars). I actually have friends who are doing their PhDs at the moment and they make more money by just being PhD students than I do.
steven2012 12y ago
Not in Silicon Valley. If you're a good programmer straight out of college, you're offered 90-100k at least these days and within 3 years you're making > 120k.
- ohquu 12y ago
  Isn't that not very much in the Bay Area (since the cost of living is extraordinary)?
  - steven2012 12y ago
    For a single, fresh-grad it is a lot of money, considering they will probably get roommates, not have a lot of obligations, etc.
- eli_gottlieb 12y ago
  The median I gave was nationwide rather than specific to the Bay Area.

By the standards of academia, that is completely untrue. When I graduated with a BSc Computer Science degree in 2011, the median starting salary for CS grads going to industry was $65k. For comparison, that's roughly the starting salary for someone who just got a tenure-track position in academia (source: http://www.higheredjobs.com/salary/salaryDisplay.cfm?SurveyID=24 http://www.higheredjobs.com/salary/salaryDisplay.cfm?SurveyI...). So compare: in one field, you start earning a median $65k at age 22 with only a bachelor's degree, and in the other, you start earning $65k in your mid to late thirties, after a bachelor's, a PhD, and often at least one post-doc. Everything before that is "low-pay grinding", except that the academic definition of "low-pay" ranges from lower-middle class ($25k-$30k for the better-paid grad-students and worse-paid post-docs) to taking on debt (the humanities).

wavefunction 12y ago
>>So compare: in one field, you start earning a median $65k at age 22 A median means that half the CS grads made less than 65k. Tenure track also comes with some eventual benefits you won't receive with a bachelor's in CS. Let's be clear about what we're actually comparing.
- 8557056 12y ago
  >> A median means that half the CS grads made less than 65k. This is false. For example, X% could make exactly 65k and only the lower ((100 - X) / 2)% would make less. ...where X \in (0, 100]
  - Crito 12y ago
    I doubt many people at all are making exactly $65k. However I also doubt that many CS grads at all are making significantly less than $65k. Those that are making appreciably less than that are almost certainly not working in the field, or they are not working in the US. I wager that the salary distribution of CS grads working in the field in the US is pretty damn tight.
    - Retric 12y ago
      My first programming job in northern VA in 2002 paid 38k and I had a CS degree. I suspect most people make less than 65k because the few at 120+k take many people at 40k to balance things out. Granted, the job market was crap and I make 6 figures now, but there are still plenty of sub 40k programming jobs out there and people happy to take them.
      - im2w1l 12y ago
        > I suspect most people make less than 65k because the few at 120+k take many people at 40k to balance things out. That's not how medians work
        Retric 12y ago
        Garbage in Garbage out Your assuming salaries are not inflated and that the ratio of people reporting salaries is constant at all income ranges and the reported numbers are accurate. I doubt any of those are true. So, IMO to observe a 65k median suggests the actual median is below 65k. PS: Don't forget grad students count as recent CS grads and there generally not making anywhere close to 65K.
gambiting 12y ago
Country specific. I've got a Masters degree in CS, work for a company which employs over 6000 programmers worldwide, work in UK, and as a Junior programmer I started with 18k pounds/annum(~28k us dollars). I actually have friends who are doing their PhDs at the moment and they make more money by just being PhD students than I do.

steven2012 12y ago

Not in Silicon Valley. If you're a good programmer straight out of college, you're offered 90-100k at least these days and within 3 years you're making > 120k.

ohquu 12y ago
Isn't that not very much in the Bay Area (since the cost of living is extraordinary)?
- steven2012 12y ago
  For a single, fresh-grad it is a lot of money, considering they will probably get roommates, not have a lot of obligations, etc.
eli_gottlieb 12y ago
The median I gave was nationwide rather than specific to the Bay Area.