6 ms·

I give them, or anyone, credit for trying to create a secure messenger. It is not easy. However, I just wish they would release the source code to their clients

by electic 12y ago

I give them, or anyone, credit for trying to create a secure messenger. It is not easy. However, I just wish they would release the source code to their clients and server. They have not. That would go a long way.

tptacek 12y ago
Both OTR (ChatSecure on your phone) and TextSecure are good options. Telegram is not a good option.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- WhitneyLand 12y ago
  because...?
  - sarciszewski 12y ago
    http://www.cryptofails.com/post/70546720222/telegrams-cryptanalysis-contest http://www.cryptofails.com/post/70546720222/telegrams-crypta... Because the designers have their heads firmly planted where the sun doesn't shine, for one.
  - justcommenting 12y ago
    as linked elsewhere in the thread, moxie offers an excellent explanation: http://www.thoughtcrime.org/blog/telegram-crypto-challenge/ http://www.thoughtcrime.org/blog/telegram-crypto-challenge/
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
      - tptacek 12y ago
        Moxie is right. I barely know him and have no stake in TextSecure.
- rmsaksida 12y ago
  Unfortunately, those are not real alternatives to Telegram. Telegram is meant to be a WhatsApp replacement. WhatsApp thrives because in many places, SMS costs are prohibitive (so TextSecure is not an option). In addition, it requires no registration and doesn't rely on external services (so ChatSecure is also out of the question).
  - tptacek 12y ago
    Then use WhatsApp!
    - kruk 12y ago
      Telegram allows you to use the same account on multiple devices, which is the main reason why I use it. It's also independent of Facebook, which many people don't trust.
  - dobbsbob 12y ago
    Textsecure for Android uses wifi/reg data and SMS if you want. Signal, the version for iOS with combined Redphone + TextSecure will be data too. Soon they will also allow email identity instead of only phone numbers. WhatsApp requires just as much registration as TS, and you have to allow WhatsApp full permissions to mine your entire device from reading SMS to /sdcard.
- kristofferR 12y ago
  Not really. Sure, they may be more secure, but their user experience is really bad compared to Telegram.
- drdaeman 12y ago
  Doesn't TextSecure use some non-conventional cryptographic constructs, too? It's just that I heard some concerns about key exchange (that triple Diffie-Hellman exchange) not having a formal security proof, although I'm completely incompetent to evaluate whenever those were valid concerns or just some chatter.
  - tptacek 12y ago
    Are you comparing the Axolotl key ratchet Trevor Perrin designed to the 1980s throwback block cipher mode Telegram uses?
    - drdaeman 12y ago
      Yes and no. I have no idea whenever and how broken IGE is. I heard, nobody even cared to evaluate that. Boils down to "no formal proofs (but likely to be broken)". At the same time, I heard the concern there are no security proofs on the key exchange and it may have issues. Since as a commoner I can't evaluate it any further than this, so boils down to "no formal proofs (although hoped to be fine)", too. Those are surely different cases. I'm just concerned over what I use (TextSecure), though.
      - tptacek 12y ago
        If it makes you feel any better, after the paper published last week, it looks like TextSecure is the closest of all the messaging applications to any kind of formal proof.
simi_ 12y ago
I spectated this whole Telegram circus, and never for a moment thought they aren't disclosing the source code. This is hilarious!
magikarp 12y ago
The majority of Telegram's source code seems to be released as free software: https://telegram.org/apps https://telegram.org/apps (scroll down)
- hackerboos 12y ago
  Just not the bit that matters (the servers).
  - magikarp 12y ago
    Well, it is a client-side encryption app. If the encryption, public key authentication, etc. is being done well on the client, then the server's only purpose should be routing garbled ciphertext between users and managing things like login, etc.
- electic 12y ago
  No. Download the iOS app for instance. It is very very old to what is available in the app store. So thee is no way to really verify the client either today.

by electic 12y ago

tptacek 12y ago

Both OTR (ChatSecure on your phone) and TextSecure are good options. Telegram is not a good option.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
WhitneyLand 12y ago
because...?
- sarciszewski 12y ago
  http://www.cryptofails.com/post/70546720222/telegrams-cryptanalysis-contest http://www.cryptofails.com/post/70546720222/telegrams-crypta... Because the designers have their heads firmly planted where the sun doesn't shine, for one.
- justcommenting 12y ago
  as linked elsewhere in the thread, moxie offers an excellent explanation: http://www.thoughtcrime.org/blog/telegram-crypto-challenge/ http://www.thoughtcrime.org/blog/telegram-crypto-challenge/
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
    - tptacek 12y ago
      Moxie is right. I barely know him and have no stake in TextSecure.
rmsaksida 12y ago
Unfortunately, those are not real alternatives to Telegram. Telegram is meant to be a WhatsApp replacement. WhatsApp thrives because in many places, SMS costs are prohibitive (so TextSecure is not an option). In addition, it requires no registration and doesn't rely on external services (so ChatSecure is also out of the question).
- tptacek 12y ago
  Then use WhatsApp!
  - kruk 12y ago
    Telegram allows you to use the same account on multiple devices, which is the main reason why I use it. It's also independent of Facebook, which many people don't trust.
- dobbsbob 12y ago
  Textsecure for Android uses wifi/reg data and SMS if you want. Signal, the version for iOS with combined Redphone + TextSecure will be data too. Soon they will also allow email identity instead of only phone numbers. WhatsApp requires just as much registration as TS, and you have to allow WhatsApp full permissions to mine your entire device from reading SMS to /sdcard.
kristofferR 12y ago
Not really. Sure, they may be more secure, but their user experience is really bad compared to Telegram.
drdaeman 12y ago
Doesn't TextSecure use some non-conventional cryptographic constructs, too? It's just that I heard some concerns about key exchange (that triple Diffie-Hellman exchange) not having a formal security proof, although I'm completely incompetent to evaluate whenever those were valid concerns or just some chatter.
- tptacek 12y ago
  Are you comparing the Axolotl key ratchet Trevor Perrin designed to the 1980s throwback block cipher mode Telegram uses?
  - drdaeman 12y ago
    Yes and no. I have no idea whenever and how broken IGE is. I heard, nobody even cared to evaluate that. Boils down to "no formal proofs (but likely to be broken)". At the same time, I heard the concern there are no security proofs on the key exchange and it may have issues. Since as a commoner I can't evaluate it any further than this, so boils down to "no formal proofs (although hoped to be fine)", too. Those are surely different cases. I'm just concerned over what I use (TextSecure), though.
    - tptacek 12y ago
      If it makes you feel any better, after the paper published last week, it looks like TextSecure is the closest of all the messaging applications to any kind of formal proof.

simi_ 12y ago

I spectated this whole Telegram circus, and never for a moment thought they aren't disclosing the source code. This is hilarious!

magikarp 12y ago

The majority of Telegram's source code seems to be released as free software: https://telegram.org/apps https://telegram.org/apps (scroll down)

hackerboos 12y ago
Just not the bit that matters (the servers).
- magikarp 12y ago
  Well, it is a client-side encryption app. If the encryption, public key authentication, etc. is being done well on the client, then the server's only purpose should be routing garbled ciphertext between users and managing things like login, etc.
electic 12y ago
No. Download the iOS app for instance. It is very very old to what is available in the app store. So thee is no way to really verify the client either today.