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I like the idea of basic income, but I'm skeptical about how many problems it can actually solve. Your depiction almost makes it sound miraculous (with a bit of

by qwtel 12y ago

I like the idea of basic income, but I'm skeptical about how many problems it can actually solve. Your depiction almost makes it sound miraculous (with a bit of social romanticism), while ignoring the problems it could eventually create. Apart form that we are a long way from having a serious discussion about it, as it's just too alien a concept for most people, including those who would need it.

zanny 12y ago
Considering everyone beyond the retirement age is already effectively getting a basic income, or that anyone on unemployment is getting a temporary basic income, or that if you ignore the beuracratic overhead and injustice of welfare then food stamps + section 9 + the free electric programs sum to a near basic income, albeit a much worse implementation in every way, that is hugely destructive for economies and persons involved. People already love getting those income tax returns - when you pay in more than you needed to, and you get the difference back. Basic income is the exact same thing - most people would be paying in significantly less than they get out, while those above a threshold (preferably the peak happiness threshold of income, that varies by location but in general on an individual basis is around 75k a year, src: http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2019628,00.html http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2019628...).
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  > Considering everyone beyond the retirement age is already effectively getting a basic income No, they aren't. Presumably, this is intended to refer to Social Security, which is not at all like a basic income (even aside from age): 1) Eligibility to receive benefits at all isn't unconditional (again, even discounting age), its based on qualifying contributions -- your own or someone else's -- and other factors. 2) The level of benefits if you are eligible isn't constant, but varies based on the same factors that go into eligibility. > or that anyone on unemployment is getting a temporary basic income Unemployment insurance is also not like basic income, as the benefit level as controlled by qualifying income in the preceding period. > or that if you ignore the beuracratic overhead and injustice of welfare then food stamps + section 9 + the free electric programs sum to a near basic income You probably mean section 8 housing vouchers, but, again, nothing like a basic income; all of those are conditional program with both means and behavioral tests (and in many cases aren't fungible benefits, so they also have use restrictions).
  - zanny 12y ago
    There is a reason we usually prefix BI with universal. No, there are few programs that are legitimately universal, but every instance of non-universality you describe just describes a bureaucratic overhead nightmare that severely cripples any potential efficiency of a public works project. The jump is not from anarchy to UBI. It is from conditional basic income to unconditional. Also, I might be mixing up my district nines and section eights. I wonder why...

by qwtel 12y ago

zanny 12y ago

Considering everyone beyond the retirement age is already effectively getting a basic income, or that anyone on unemployment is getting a temporary basic income, or that if you ignore the beuracratic overhead and injustice of welfare then food stamps + section 9 + the free electric programs sum to a near basic income, albeit a much worse implementation in every way, that is hugely destructive for economies and persons involved. People already love getting those income tax returns - when you pay in more than you needed to, and you get the difference back. Basic income is the exact same thing - most people would be paying in significantly less than they get out, while those above a threshold (preferably the peak happiness threshold of income, that varies by location but in general on an individual basis is around 75k a year, src: http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2019628,00.html http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2019628...).

dragonwriter 12y ago
> Considering everyone beyond the retirement age is already effectively getting a basic income No, they aren't. Presumably, this is intended to refer to Social Security, which is not at all like a basic income (even aside from age): 1) Eligibility to receive benefits at all isn't unconditional (again, even discounting age), its based on qualifying contributions -- your own or someone else's -- and other factors. 2) The level of benefits if you are eligible isn't constant, but varies based on the same factors that go into eligibility. > or that anyone on unemployment is getting a temporary basic income Unemployment insurance is also not like basic income, as the benefit level as controlled by qualifying income in the preceding period. > or that if you ignore the beuracratic overhead and injustice of welfare then food stamps + section 9 + the free electric programs sum to a near basic income You probably mean section 8 housing vouchers, but, again, nothing like a basic income; all of those are conditional program with both means and behavioral tests (and in many cases aren't fungible benefits, so they also have use restrictions).
- zanny 12y ago
  There is a reason we usually prefix BI with universal. No, there are few programs that are legitimately universal, but every instance of non-universality you describe just describes a bureaucratic overhead nightmare that severely cripples any potential efficiency of a public works project. The jump is not from anarchy to UBI. It is from conditional basic income to unconditional. Also, I might be mixing up my district nines and section eights. I wonder why...