5 ms·

> subpar foodstuffs because fruits and vegetables cost way more than dollar menu cheeseburgers per calorie. what? not even remotely true. i frequently buy 6 l

by wooter 12y ago

> subpar foodstuffs because fruits and vegetables cost way more than dollar menu cheeseburgers per calorie. what? not even remotely true. i frequently buy 6 lb bags of frozen broccoli/cauliflower/carrot for 8 bucks. There is cheap, healthy food out there, some people just aren't buying it.

pilsetnieks 12y ago
> 6 lb bags of frozen broccoli/cauliflower/carrot for 8 bucks That implies access to a working freezer, electricity, and transportation to drive out to Costco or wherever; things that are nowhere near granted for everyone.
- yummyfajitas 12y ago
  The freezer and electricity are available to at least 97% of poor Americans. One or more cars is available to 73%. http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/h150-07.pdf http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/h150-07.pdf For comparison, India and Bangladesh are likely to have electricity percentages around 50% (no good data is available) and car ownership rates in the single digits.
  - redmoskito 12y ago
    *Freezer and electricity are available to 97% of _all_ American (households). One or more cars is available to 73% of _all_ American (households).
    - yummyfajitas 12y ago
      No, _poor_ American households. See table 2-4 on page 52, look in the "Below poverty level" column on the right side of the page.
- collyw 12y ago
  Time to prepare food as well.
Cthulhu_ 12y ago
6 lbs of broccoli at 23 kcal / 100 grams is about 621 kcal for $8, or 77kcal / dollar. A $1 cheeseburger is 350 kcal, so $8 would buy you 2800 kcal - and I'm sure there's products with even higher calories per dollar. (note this is off a random website, may be inaccurate) You have to remember that for a nontrivial percentage of people - like the homeless - this is a survival situation, where 'healthy' has a much lower priority than 'calories per dollar'.
- ssharp 12y ago
  Thanks to couponing, I can get most frozen veggies and rice for free or very close to free. A month ago, I secured a year's worth of toilet paper and shampoo and only had to pay the sales tax on it. But these "free" products are going to me, my wife, and our family. We're both well-educated, have good jobs, and live a comfortable life. What ultimately gets me the free stuff is time, access to technology (computer, printer, etc.), relationships built to acquire extra coupons, ability to drive to a nice suburban store that runs deals and doubles coupons. I guess what I'm getting at is that a lot of people don't have access to get these good deals or aren't prepared for them. In many urban environments, if you don't have a car, your only access to groceries are small convenience stores or very small local grocers, who tend to have bad prices, bad selection, old items, etc. Either that, or you take a bus to the bigger grocery store, wasting a lot of time and having to adhere to the bus' schedule.
- wpietri 12y ago
  And let's not forget the necessary infrastructure to get and store bulk frozen food, plus the time, infrastructure, and supplies needed to prepare it. How many 6-pound bags of broccoli can you manage while changing buses? How many fit in the freezer of the small, old fridge your apartment has? How long can you spend cooking when you're pulling hours at two different low-wage jobs with erratic schedules and still have to get the kids to school? I cook and eat a lot of healthy stuff, and I do it at a pretty reasonable price. But it is definitely a luxury that I pay for in time, and it still only works because I have decent infrastructure. For those who did not grow up poor, it's worth reading John Scalzi's "Being Poor" to get a feel for the experience: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2005/09/03/being-poor/ http://whatever.scalzi.com/2005/09/03/being-poor/
washadjeffmad 12y ago
You're totally right, the product exists, but access is still a problem. Mobility is a tremendous issue to people in poverty, which is as intended in some cities with populations with large wealth gaps. If a family has one car, the person working may take it for the day for work, leaving everyone else at home with only their feet or public transportation to get around. Unless they can purchase cheap produce in their neighborhood, it may take hours to get to that place, buy what they need, and return before it can be prepared. Imagine taking a bus to Costco to do the weekly shopping (payday dependent, in this context). Certainly if their life is planned around this event it becomes more reasonable, but it will be less convenient than walking to a corner market or local fast food joint and spending a few dollars to feed everyone. Have you ever had your car break down? Last winter, mine did less than a mile from my house on the interstate in the middle of the night, and I was completely stranded. Relatively, I travel hundreds of linear miles a month and have never felt that way, because "I'm only ever a few hours away from home." Your world gets a helluva lot smaller when you don't have mobility, and anyone who doesn't appreciate that really can't understand the problem with calling pulling up farmer's markets in a 20 mile radius on Google a solution.

by wooter 12y ago

pilsetnieks 12y ago

> 6 lb bags of frozen broccoli/cauliflower/carrot for 8 bucks That implies access to a working freezer, electricity, and transportation to drive out to Costco or wherever; things that are nowhere near granted for everyone.

yummyfajitas 12y ago
The freezer and electricity are available to at least 97% of poor Americans. One or more cars is available to 73%. http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/h150-07.pdf http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/h150-07.pdf For comparison, India and Bangladesh are likely to have electricity percentages around 50% (no good data is available) and car ownership rates in the single digits.
- redmoskito 12y ago
  *Freezer and electricity are available to 97% of _all_ American (households). One or more cars is available to 73% of _all_ American (households).
  - yummyfajitas 12y ago
    No, _poor_ American households. See table 2-4 on page 52, look in the "Below poverty level" column on the right side of the page.
collyw 12y ago
Time to prepare food as well.

Cthulhu_ 12y ago

6 lbs of broccoli at 23 kcal / 100 grams is about 621 kcal for $8, or 77kcal / dollar. A $1 cheeseburger is 350 kcal, so $8 would buy you 2800 kcal - and I'm sure there's products with even higher calories per dollar. (note this is off a random website, may be inaccurate) You have to remember that for a nontrivial percentage of people - like the homeless - this is a survival situation, where 'healthy' has a much lower priority than 'calories per dollar'.

ssharp 12y ago
Thanks to couponing, I can get most frozen veggies and rice for free or very close to free. A month ago, I secured a year's worth of toilet paper and shampoo and only had to pay the sales tax on it. But these "free" products are going to me, my wife, and our family. We're both well-educated, have good jobs, and live a comfortable life. What ultimately gets me the free stuff is time, access to technology (computer, printer, etc.), relationships built to acquire extra coupons, ability to drive to a nice suburban store that runs deals and doubles coupons. I guess what I'm getting at is that a lot of people don't have access to get these good deals or aren't prepared for them. In many urban environments, if you don't have a car, your only access to groceries are small convenience stores or very small local grocers, who tend to have bad prices, bad selection, old items, etc. Either that, or you take a bus to the bigger grocery store, wasting a lot of time and having to adhere to the bus' schedule.
wpietri 12y ago
And let's not forget the necessary infrastructure to get and store bulk frozen food, plus the time, infrastructure, and supplies needed to prepare it. How many 6-pound bags of broccoli can you manage while changing buses? How many fit in the freezer of the small, old fridge your apartment has? How long can you spend cooking when you're pulling hours at two different low-wage jobs with erratic schedules and still have to get the kids to school? I cook and eat a lot of healthy stuff, and I do it at a pretty reasonable price. But it is definitely a luxury that I pay for in time, and it still only works because I have decent infrastructure. For those who did not grow up poor, it's worth reading John Scalzi's "Being Poor" to get a feel for the experience: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2005/09/03/being-poor/ http://whatever.scalzi.com/2005/09/03/being-poor/

washadjeffmad 12y ago

You're totally right, the product exists, but access is still a problem. Mobility is a tremendous issue to people in poverty, which is as intended in some cities with populations with large wealth gaps. If a family has one car, the person working may take it for the day for work, leaving everyone else at home with only their feet or public transportation to get around. Unless they can purchase cheap produce in their neighborhood, it may take hours to get to that place, buy what they need, and return before it can be prepared. Imagine taking a bus to Costco to do the weekly shopping (payday dependent, in this context). Certainly if their life is planned around this event it becomes more reasonable, but it will be less convenient than walking to a corner market or local fast food joint and spending a few dollars to feed everyone. Have you ever had your car break down? Last winter, mine did less than a mile from my house on the interstate in the middle of the night, and I was completely stranded. Relatively, I travel hundreds of linear miles a month and have never felt that way, because "I'm only ever a few hours away from home." Your world gets a helluva lot smaller when you don't have mobility, and anyone who doesn't appreciate that really can't understand the problem with calling pulling up farmer's markets in a 20 mile radius on Google a solution.