5 ms·

Are you suggesting that the police need to intervene if someone is howling at the top of their lungs and kicking seats? Did they do any damage? Your attitude

by na85 12y ago

Are you suggesting that the police need to intervene if someone is howling at the top of their lungs and kicking seats? Did they do any damage? Your attitude is the reason people with mental health issues often are reluctant to seek help. Because they are stigmatized, and mental health is quickly becoming criminalized.

BadassFractal 12y ago
Unnecessary staw man, you're putting words in my mouth, I did not ask for a police intervention or criminalization. I'm happy for this situation to be resolved in whatever most humane and compassionate way possible. I'm in no position to propose solutions, as I don't have any expertise in this field. I would however love to feel safe when being outside of my apartment, instead of wondering if one of these dozens of visibly infirm people I pass by on the way to anything is about to assault me or do something else completely unpredictable to me.
- DanBC 12y ago
  People with a mental health problem are far more likely to be the victims, not perpetrators, of violence. Most violent crime is not committed by people with a mental illness. While I appreciate the concern you show for the piss-poor inhumane brutal lack of treatment your country provides to those with a mental illness (despite spending more per capita on health) it'd be nice if you could do it without stigmatising mental ill-health.
  - ketralnis 12y ago
    I appreciate what you're trying to say, but he's not talking about a random sampling of mentally ill people. He's talking about a person that's kicking a bunch of seats around and generally indicating a potential for violence. Whether or not we're talking about mental illness, we're talking about someone that's current being violent.
    - DanBC 12y ago
      There's a clear extrapolation from that one person being violent[1] to the idea that people with mental illness are in general violent. > Right next to her is a hole in the wall punched by some other mentally infirm person that same day. BadassFractal didn't witness that, but assumes it was done by someone with a mental health problem rather than someone who's just an angry arsehole. > I would however love to feel safe when being outside of my apartment, instead of wondering if one of these dozens of visibly infirm people I pass by on the way to anything is about to assault me This is directly linking mental ill health to violence, and it's just as abhorrent as linking violent crime to African Americans. Those visibly infirm people are far more likely to be the victims, not perpetrators, of violence -- even if you remove self-inflicted violence. [1] to property, not as far as I know to people. EDIT: http://depts.washington.edu/mhreport/facts_violence.php http://depts.washington.edu/mhreport/facts_violence.php > - "Although studies suggest a link between mental illnesses and violence, the contribution of people with mental illnesses to overall rates of violence is small, and further, the magnitude of the relationship is greatly exaggerated in the minds of the general population (Institute of Medicine, 2006)." > - "…the vast majority of people who are violent do not suffer from mental illnesses (American Psychiatric Association, 1994)." > - "The absolute risk of violence among the mentally ill as a group is very small. . . only a small proportion of the violence in our society can be attributed to persons who are mentally ill (Mulvey, 1994)." > -"People with psychiatric disabilities are far more likely to be victims than perpetrators of violent crime (Appleby, et al., 2001). People with severe mental illnesses, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder or psychosis, are 2 ½ times more likely to be attacked, raped or mugged than the general population (Hiday, et al.,1999)." > The effects of stigma and discrimination are profound. The President’s New Freedom Commission on Mental Health found that, “Stigma leads others to avoid living, socializing, or working with, renting to, or employing people with mental disorders - especially severe disorders, such as schizophrenia. It leads to low self-esteem, isolation, and hopelessness. It deters the public from seeking and wanting to pay for care. Responding to stigma, people with mental health problems internalize public attitudes and become so embarrassed or ashamed that they often conceal symptoms and fail to seek treatment (New Freedom Commission, 2003).”
      - Kalium 12y ago
crashedsnow 12y ago
I don't think so. I think they're suggesting that there is a torrent of cash pouring into the city's coffers and negative progress to show for it. It's either systemic corruption, or incompetence on a galactic scale. Either way I agree. I want my money back.

by na85 12y ago

BadassFractal 12y ago

Unnecessary staw man, you're putting words in my mouth, I did not ask for a police intervention or criminalization. I'm happy for this situation to be resolved in whatever most humane and compassionate way possible. I'm in no position to propose solutions, as I don't have any expertise in this field. I would however love to feel safe when being outside of my apartment, instead of wondering if one of these dozens of visibly infirm people I pass by on the way to anything is about to assault me or do something else completely unpredictable to me.

DanBC 12y ago
People with a mental health problem are far more likely to be the victims, not perpetrators, of violence. Most violent crime is not committed by people with a mental illness. While I appreciate the concern you show for the piss-poor inhumane brutal lack of treatment your country provides to those with a mental illness (despite spending more per capita on health) it'd be nice if you could do it without stigmatising mental ill-health.
- ketralnis 12y ago
  I appreciate what you're trying to say, but he's not talking about a random sampling of mentally ill people. He's talking about a person that's kicking a bunch of seats around and generally indicating a potential for violence. Whether or not we're talking about mental illness, we're talking about someone that's current being violent.
  - DanBC 12y ago
    There's a clear extrapolation from that one person being violent[1] to the idea that people with mental illness are in general violent. > Right next to her is a hole in the wall punched by some other mentally infirm person that same day. BadassFractal didn't witness that, but assumes it was done by someone with a mental health problem rather than someone who's just an angry arsehole. > I would however love to feel safe when being outside of my apartment, instead of wondering if one of these dozens of visibly infirm people I pass by on the way to anything is about to assault me This is directly linking mental ill health to violence, and it's just as abhorrent as linking violent crime to African Americans. Those visibly infirm people are far more likely to be the victims, not perpetrators, of violence -- even if you remove self-inflicted violence. [1] to property, not as far as I know to people. EDIT: http://depts.washington.edu/mhreport/facts_violence.php http://depts.washington.edu/mhreport/facts_violence.php > - "Although studies suggest a link between mental illnesses and violence, the contribution of people with mental illnesses to overall rates of violence is small, and further, the magnitude of the relationship is greatly exaggerated in the minds of the general population (Institute of Medicine, 2006)." > - "…the vast majority of people who are violent do not suffer from mental illnesses (American Psychiatric Association, 1994)." > - "The absolute risk of violence among the mentally ill as a group is very small. . . only a small proportion of the violence in our society can be attributed to persons who are mentally ill (Mulvey, 1994)." > -"People with psychiatric disabilities are far more likely to be victims than perpetrators of violent crime (Appleby, et al., 2001). People with severe mental illnesses, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder or psychosis, are 2 ½ times more likely to be attacked, raped or mugged than the general population (Hiday, et al.,1999)." > The effects of stigma and discrimination are profound. The President’s New Freedom Commission on Mental Health found that, “Stigma leads others to avoid living, socializing, or working with, renting to, or employing people with mental disorders - especially severe disorders, such as schizophrenia. It leads to low self-esteem, isolation, and hopelessness. It deters the public from seeking and wanting to pay for care. Responding to stigma, people with mental health problems internalize public attitudes and become so embarrassed or ashamed that they often conceal symptoms and fail to seek treatment (New Freedom Commission, 2003).”
    - Kalium 12y ago

crashedsnow 12y ago

I don't think so. I think they're suggesting that there is a torrent of cash pouring into the city's coffers and negative progress to show for it. It's either systemic corruption, or incompetence on a galactic scale. Either way I agree. I want my money back.