4 ms·

> Nintendo and Sony offer pretty robust online delivery services I would say that they're both lightyears behind Microsoft/Xbox.

deciplex 12y ago
Nintendo certainly does not compete here. I don't know the ins and outs of Playstation Network and Xbox Live well enough to really judge, but Nintendo's... whatever, is not in the same league. They still haven't managed to even separate the end-user from the console he owns. If what they offer is 'robust' I want to know what isn't robust.
bane 12y ago
Here's a great article on some of the challenges. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-secret-developers-wii-u-the-inside-story http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-secret... "The discussion started off well enough and covered off our experiences with the hardware and (slow) toolchain and then we steered them towards discussing when the online features might be available. We were told that the features, and the OS updates to support them, would be available before the hardware launch, but only just. There were apparently issues with setting up a large networking infrastructure to rival Sony and Microsoft that they hadn't envisaged. This was surprising to hear, as we would have thought that they had plenty of time to work on these features as it had been announced months before, so we probed a little deeper and asked how certain scenarios might work with the Mii friends and networking, all the time referencing how Xbox Live and PSN achieve the same thing. At some point in this conversation we were informed that it was no good referencing Live and PSN as nobody in their development teams used those systems (!) so could we provide more detailed explanations for them? My only thought after this call was that they were struggling - badly - with the networking side as it was far more complicated than they anticipated. They were trying to play catch-up with the rival systems, but without the years of experience to back it up. As promised, (just) before the worldwide launch we received the final networking features that we required for our game along with an OS update for the development kits that would allow us to test. So we patched up our code and tried to start testing our game. First up we had to flash the kits to the retail mode that had the Mii and network features. This was a very complicated manual process that left the consoles in a halfway state. In the retail mode we could test our features and ensure that they worked as expected, which would be a requirement for getting through Nintendo certification, but in this mode the debugging capabilities were limited. So we could see when things went wrong, but we couldn't fully debug to find out why. As developers, we had to make a choice and hope that any issues that you found were due to the (untested) OS code and wouldn't happen in the final retail environment. What should have been simple tasks were long-winded and error prone. Simple things like sending a friends request to another user were not supported in the OS, so you had to boot a separate program on the console manually, via a debug menu, so that you could send one. But if any error occurred there was no way to debug why it had failed, it just failed. We started to ask questions about how they could possibly launch the console, which was a matter of weeks away, with a partially developed OS. How were they going to get the OS onto all of the consoles that had been manufactured up to that point? Was it just that we got it late, but they had pushed it into the production line earlier? Launch day came around and the answer became clear: Nintendo was late - very late - with its network systems. In fact, the only way to access their systems fully was to download a big patch on day one that added all these missing components. Without that patch a lot of the release titles would have been only semi-functional."
- digi_owl 12y ago
  >At some point in this conversation we were informed that it was no good referencing Live and PSN as nobody in their development teams used those systems (!) No surprise there. Giri is still a very real thing in Japan, tho it is fading slowly with the generations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giri_%28Japanese%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giri_%28Japanese%29
  - w1ntermute 12y ago
    One of the funniest incarnations of giri is giri choco[0] and honmei choco[1]. 0: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giri_choco http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giri_choco 1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honmei_choco http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honmei_choco
CrazedGeek 12y ago
I would say that all the current generation consoles have pretty much the exact same game purchasing capabilities. If anything, the Xbox One is the worst due to how bizarrely confusing browsing the store is on it. The PS Store and eShop are much nicer to use.

deciplex 12y ago

Nintendo certainly does not compete here. I don't know the ins and outs of Playstation Network and Xbox Live well enough to really judge, but Nintendo's... whatever, is not in the same league. They still haven't managed to even separate the end-user from the console he owns. If what they offer is 'robust' I want to know what isn't robust.

bane 12y ago

Here's a great article on some of the challenges. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-secret-developers-wii-u-the-inside-story http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-secret... "The discussion started off well enough and covered off our experiences with the hardware and (slow) toolchain and then we steered them towards discussing when the online features might be available. We were told that the features, and the OS updates to support them, would be available before the hardware launch, but only just. There were apparently issues with setting up a large networking infrastructure to rival Sony and Microsoft that they hadn't envisaged. This was surprising to hear, as we would have thought that they had plenty of time to work on these features as it had been announced months before, so we probed a little deeper and asked how certain scenarios might work with the Mii friends and networking, all the time referencing how Xbox Live and PSN achieve the same thing. At some point in this conversation we were informed that it was no good referencing Live and PSN as nobody in their development teams used those systems (!) so could we provide more detailed explanations for them? My only thought after this call was that they were struggling - badly - with the networking side as it was far more complicated than they anticipated. They were trying to play catch-up with the rival systems, but without the years of experience to back it up. As promised, (just) before the worldwide launch we received the final networking features that we required for our game along with an OS update for the development kits that would allow us to test. So we patched up our code and tried to start testing our game. First up we had to flash the kits to the retail mode that had the Mii and network features. This was a very complicated manual process that left the consoles in a halfway state. In the retail mode we could test our features and ensure that they worked as expected, which would be a requirement for getting through Nintendo certification, but in this mode the debugging capabilities were limited. So we could see when things went wrong, but we couldn't fully debug to find out why. As developers, we had to make a choice and hope that any issues that you found were due to the (untested) OS code and wouldn't happen in the final retail environment. What should have been simple tasks were long-winded and error prone. Simple things like sending a friends request to another user were not supported in the OS, so you had to boot a separate program on the console manually, via a debug menu, so that you could send one. But if any error occurred there was no way to debug why it had failed, it just failed. We started to ask questions about how they could possibly launch the console, which was a matter of weeks away, with a partially developed OS. How were they going to get the OS onto all of the consoles that had been manufactured up to that point? Was it just that we got it late, but they had pushed it into the production line earlier? Launch day came around and the answer became clear: Nintendo was late - very late - with its network systems. In fact, the only way to access their systems fully was to download a big patch on day one that added all these missing components. Without that patch a lot of the release titles would have been only semi-functional."

digi_owl 12y ago
>At some point in this conversation we were informed that it was no good referencing Live and PSN as nobody in their development teams used those systems (!) No surprise there. Giri is still a very real thing in Japan, tho it is fading slowly with the generations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giri_%28Japanese%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giri_%28Japanese%29
- w1ntermute 12y ago
  One of the funniest incarnations of giri is giri choco[0] and honmei choco[1]. 0: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giri_choco http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giri_choco 1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honmei_choco http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honmei_choco

CrazedGeek 12y ago

I would say that all the current generation consoles have pretty much the exact same game purchasing capabilities. If anything, the Xbox One is the worst due to how bizarrely confusing browsing the store is on it. The PS Store and eShop are much nicer to use.