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I'm not sure I understand the argument here. Several manufacturers have now implemented on-by-default device encryption with no backdoor. This is not only feasi

I'm not sure I understand the argument here. Several manufacturers have now implemented on-by-default device encryption with no backdoor. This is not only feasible (in a business and technical sense) but is rapidly becoming the standard. Microsoft's approach is now an outlier. It almost certainly provides a much more vulnerable form of encryption than, say, Apple's and Google's. You're correct that Microsoft's device encryption is "free" to some extent, and it certainly is more secure than plaintext. That still doesn't mean it's ok to compromise it. At least with plaintext you avoid the performance overhead and associated risks of device encryption. With Microsoft's solution, you oay all the overhead -- and still get a much more limited form of protection.

UnoriginalGuy 12y ago
> Several manufacturers have now implemented on-by-default device encryption with no backdoor. Both Apple and Google's schemes are predicated on the assumption that you'll have a full phone backup stored in the "cloud." They also offer photo backup and sync other key data. The whole setup is meant to make an individual phone (and Chromebook) completely hardware agnostic. You lose your old phone? You buy a new one, sign in, wait a bit and like magic it is all set and ready to go. Windows (and OS X) aren't really designed with that model in mind, so if you lose your keys you may not have your data stored elsewhere (and indefinitely data loss due to a HDD/SSD failure is extremely common). > With Microsoft's solution, you oay all the overhead -- and still get a much more limited form of protection. In this context "much more limited" is against: almost every government in the world, private individuals, and against private companies. So, what, like 98%+ of the world's population? You make it sound like Microsoft's device encryption scheme uses ROT13. Instead they're using industrial strength encryption and your only real criticism is that either someone with a court order or the NSA can potentially gain access. That's still a huge win for day to day security. If someone breaks into my apartment and steals my laptop, I will be a bit less concerned about potential identity theft as it is reasonable to assume that your average street thief isn't an NSA agent.
- biafra 12y ago
  Since when can I do a full backup with Google/Android? Let alone store it in some cloud? If this is really possible, how do I do it? There is a backup api that backups stuff the developer of the individual app thinks about storing. And there is adb backup which does backup some stuff of apps that allow it. There are full backup solutions but they are not by Google and they require an unlocked bootloader to install them in the recovery partition or root. So if you know a full backup solution by Google for Android that does not require root or an unlockes bootloader I'd be interested to hear about it.
  - UnoriginalGuy 12y ago
    > Since when can I do a full backup with Google/Android? Since at least 4.0? Maybe earlier? I have three full phone backup providers installed by default, Google, Samsung, and one by AT&T (ick). > Let alone store it in some cloud? That's the default way to do backups on Android. Look in the "Backup & Reset" sub-menu in settings. > If this is really possible, how do I do it? Here's an article from 2012: http://www.techhive.com/article/248984/how_to_back_up_your_android_phone.html http://www.techhive.com/article/248984/how_to_back_up_your_a... I'm talking about the first style of backup that backs up more than the data types listed in this 2012 article.
    - berdario 12y ago
      Do you realize his questions were mostly rethorical? > There is a backup api that backups stuff the developer of the individual app thinks about storing. And there is adb backup which does backup some stuff of apps that allow it. "thinks about storing", "some stuff"... he's criticizing the fact that the backup solution that most Android users rely upon aren't really backing up everything (The same thing happened years ago with Time Machine on MacOsX, not sure if it improved) I also realized at restore-time that my backups weren't really comprehensive... so I understand if people are bitter about the currrent state of things
- joosters 12y ago
  Both Apple and Google's schemes are predicated on the assumption that you'll have a full phone backup stored in the "cloud." What utter rubbish. You do not need to turn on iCloud backups to use any of the encryption features.
kalleboo 12y ago
OS X's FileVault prompts you to upload your decryption key to Apple in case you lose it when you turn it on. It may be more transparent about it, but I can't speak for how the MS solution actually works.

UnoriginalGuy 12y ago

> Several manufacturers have now implemented on-by-default device encryption with no backdoor. Both Apple and Google's schemes are predicated on the assumption that you'll have a full phone backup stored in the "cloud." They also offer photo backup and sync other key data. The whole setup is meant to make an individual phone (and Chromebook) completely hardware agnostic. You lose your old phone? You buy a new one, sign in, wait a bit and like magic it is all set and ready to go. Windows (and OS X) aren't really designed with that model in mind, so if you lose your keys you may not have your data stored elsewhere (and indefinitely data loss due to a HDD/SSD failure is extremely common). > With Microsoft's solution, you oay all the overhead -- and still get a much more limited form of protection. In this context "much more limited" is against: almost every government in the world, private individuals, and against private companies. So, what, like 98%+ of the world's population? You make it sound like Microsoft's device encryption scheme uses ROT13. Instead they're using industrial strength encryption and your only real criticism is that either someone with a court order or the NSA can potentially gain access. That's still a huge win for day to day security. If someone breaks into my apartment and steals my laptop, I will be a bit less concerned about potential identity theft as it is reasonable to assume that your average street thief isn't an NSA agent.

biafra 12y ago
Since when can I do a full backup with Google/Android? Let alone store it in some cloud? If this is really possible, how do I do it? There is a backup api that backups stuff the developer of the individual app thinks about storing. And there is adb backup which does backup some stuff of apps that allow it. There are full backup solutions but they are not by Google and they require an unlocked bootloader to install them in the recovery partition or root. So if you know a full backup solution by Google for Android that does not require root or an unlockes bootloader I'd be interested to hear about it.
- UnoriginalGuy 12y ago
  > Since when can I do a full backup with Google/Android? Since at least 4.0? Maybe earlier? I have three full phone backup providers installed by default, Google, Samsung, and one by AT&T (ick). > Let alone store it in some cloud? That's the default way to do backups on Android. Look in the "Backup & Reset" sub-menu in settings. > If this is really possible, how do I do it? Here's an article from 2012: http://www.techhive.com/article/248984/how_to_back_up_your_android_phone.html http://www.techhive.com/article/248984/how_to_back_up_your_a... I'm talking about the first style of backup that backs up more than the data types listed in this 2012 article.
  - berdario 12y ago
    Do you realize his questions were mostly rethorical? > There is a backup api that backups stuff the developer of the individual app thinks about storing. And there is adb backup which does backup some stuff of apps that allow it. "thinks about storing", "some stuff"... he's criticizing the fact that the backup solution that most Android users rely upon aren't really backing up everything (The same thing happened years ago with Time Machine on MacOsX, not sure if it improved) I also realized at restore-time that my backups weren't really comprehensive... so I understand if people are bitter about the currrent state of things
joosters 12y ago
Both Apple and Google's schemes are predicated on the assumption that you'll have a full phone backup stored in the "cloud." What utter rubbish. You do not need to turn on iCloud backups to use any of the encryption features.

kalleboo 12y ago

OS X's FileVault prompts you to upload your decryption key to Apple in case you lose it when you turn it on. It may be more transparent about it, but I can't speak for how the MS solution actually works.