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I am not sure if your response is relevant to the article, but I felt that there is some level of superiority complex that you and many fellow humans posses (in

by xxcode 12y ago

I am not sure if your response is relevant to the article, but I felt that there is some level of superiority complex that you and many fellow humans posses (in this case, about your superior knowledge and intellect). Perhaps the biggest difference between you and someone applying for the job through the h1b visa program was that they were born in a different set of circumstances than you were. They were likely born in India whereas you were born I the United States. As a result of being born in India, they went to a local school there which didn't teach them about hash tables and concurrency. Your school did, and you had a better education. This person from India is trying to make a better life for himself despite starting at a disadvantage in life(being born in a poor country with access to lesser educational opportunities than you). You are welcome to reject him for the job(you can do so at the resume screening state, especially if they don't have the relevant skills and experience) but I think it would be useful to remember that the other person is a human, likely disadvantaged, and express some human empathy.

driverdan 12y ago
Your response has nothing to do with his post. He said he's looking for senior devs and keeps getting sent rookies. It doesn't matter what their background is, they clearly shouldn't be applying for something they can't do.
kabdib 12y ago
I'm perfectly happy interviewing people for junior positions. We did this quite a bit at larger companies where junior engineers were desirable, and there was structure that let them succeed. But when I'm dealing with a professional organization that is basically trying to scam my company into doing mis-hires, that's when my empathy goes dry. I have a duty to my co-workers and my investors to not screw up hires. I see gaming the system as a legitimate opportunity to criticize someone else's behavior. I agree, these junior level people are in a tough position. They're being mis-represented and taken advantage of. It sucks. I want people to succeed. But I don't do handouts, and the practices I've seen make me mad. Everyone in this industry sees many, many resumes from people who cannot do the job. Everyone interviews people who don't pass. Probably everyone has seen people fired because they couldn't perform or were doing damage. This happens. It's not going away. And it's not pleasant. So while it might not come across in what I wrote above, every time I affect someone's life like this -- every time I send a "Sorry, we're not going to proceed" email, or tell someone in an interview that we're cutting things short today -- I feel bad about it. Sometimes a little bad, sometimes a lot. Sometimes I agonize over a resume (and we spent quite a bit of time on a candidate the other day, trying to come up with reasons to proceed). But the alternatives (job charity? keeping someone on who does negative work?) are worse. Much worse. And given all the people who should be given a chance, I won't countenance fraud. That makes me write responses that are direct and forceful and unapologetic. These job shops are poisoning the well for the individuals who are truly deserving, and that should make everyone mad.
hemantv 12y ago
Yes there is certain luck bestowed upon you when you are born in US. But you still need to do lots of work to get a good job. Big multinational don't care about your visa status, several of my friend has been in Zurich (Google), Dubin (Google), London (FB) if they didn't make cut in H1B lottery system after they cleared the interview process. Don't confuse empathy with competence. Are you looking for charity when you interview with the companies ? Work hard, raise your competence level and you will have no problem finding a good job in any part of the world.
WalterSear 12y ago
"You are welcome to reject him for the job(you can do so at the resume screening state, especially if they don't have the relevant skills and experience) but I think it would be useful to remember that the other person is a human, likely disadvantaged, and express some human empathy." It is hard to do both when so many of the candidates in question are lying on their resume, lying during the interview, and they are lying to themselves about whether or not they are qualified for the job. Oh, and their recruiter was lying to since before you met them. You are exhorting greater empathy from one side, while ignoring the entire lack of empathy from the other. Whenever I've seen people do this, it has usually been because they were fostering in-group biases they wouldn't admit to.
geebee 12y ago
I admire and support immigrants who wish to better their lives. But if (as you state) the people receiving these work visas aren't especially skilled or educated, why treat them differently from the 1.2+ million immigrants who come freely to the US every year? Why not tell employers who are looking for IT help that they're free to hire anyone currently authorized to work in the US just like every other segment of the economy?

by xxcode 12y ago

driverdan 12y ago

Your response has nothing to do with his post. He said he's looking for senior devs and keeps getting sent rookies. It doesn't matter what their background is, they clearly shouldn't be applying for something they can't do.

kabdib 12y ago

I'm perfectly happy interviewing people for junior positions. We did this quite a bit at larger companies where junior engineers were desirable, and there was structure that let them succeed. But when I'm dealing with a professional organization that is basically trying to scam my company into doing mis-hires, that's when my empathy goes dry. I have a duty to my co-workers and my investors to not screw up hires. I see gaming the system as a legitimate opportunity to criticize someone else's behavior. I agree, these junior level people are in a tough position. They're being mis-represented and taken advantage of. It sucks. I want people to succeed. But I don't do handouts, and the practices I've seen make me mad. Everyone in this industry sees many, many resumes from people who cannot do the job. Everyone interviews people who don't pass. Probably everyone has seen people fired because they couldn't perform or were doing damage. This happens. It's not going away. And it's not pleasant. So while it might not come across in what I wrote above, every time I affect someone's life like this -- every time I send a "Sorry, we're not going to proceed" email, or tell someone in an interview that we're cutting things short today -- I feel bad about it. Sometimes a little bad, sometimes a lot. Sometimes I agonize over a resume (and we spent quite a bit of time on a candidate the other day, trying to come up with reasons to proceed). But the alternatives (job charity? keeping someone on who does negative work?) are worse. Much worse. And given all the people who should be given a chance, I won't countenance fraud. That makes me write responses that are direct and forceful and unapologetic. These job shops are poisoning the well for the individuals who are truly deserving, and that should make everyone mad.

hemantv 12y ago

Yes there is certain luck bestowed upon you when you are born in US. But you still need to do lots of work to get a good job. Big multinational don't care about your visa status, several of my friend has been in Zurich (Google), Dubin (Google), London (FB) if they didn't make cut in H1B lottery system after they cleared the interview process. Don't confuse empathy with competence. Are you looking for charity when you interview with the companies ? Work hard, raise your competence level and you will have no problem finding a good job in any part of the world.

WalterSear 12y ago

"You are welcome to reject him for the job(you can do so at the resume screening state, especially if they don't have the relevant skills and experience) but I think it would be useful to remember that the other person is a human, likely disadvantaged, and express some human empathy." It is hard to do both when so many of the candidates in question are lying on their resume, lying during the interview, and they are lying to themselves about whether or not they are qualified for the job. Oh, and their recruiter was lying to since before you met them. You are exhorting greater empathy from one side, while ignoring the entire lack of empathy from the other. Whenever I've seen people do this, it has usually been because they were fostering in-group biases they wouldn't admit to.

geebee 12y ago

I admire and support immigrants who wish to better their lives. But if (as you state) the people receiving these work visas aren't especially skilled or educated, why treat them differently from the 1.2+ million immigrants who come freely to the US every year? Why not tell employers who are looking for IT help that they're free to hire anyone currently authorized to work in the US just like every other segment of the economy?