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I should start an online collection of stories like this, so I could refer people to it when they complain about Apple hardware being overpriced and/or only bou

by nikanj 12y ago

I should start an online collection of stories like this, so I could refer people to it when they complain about Apple hardware being overpriced and/or only bought by idiots.

ivanca 12y ago
Yeah, an also note awesome laptops like an Acer I got for $400 5 years ago and despite many many hard hits against the floor it still works and has the same battery life length. This is true, but the problem with anecdotal experience is that you can "prove" anything with it.
- gmac 12y ago
  It's not as simple as: all Apple products are perfect and all Windows laptops are terrible. But the chances of your Apple hardware having a horrible fault, in my experience, are very significantly lower. And if it does have a horrible fault, it almost certainly won't be a stupid and maddening one caused by a third-party driver.
  - izacus 12y ago
    So chances are that 2000-3000$ piece of equpment have less faults than 300$-3000$ piece of equipment? The problem with your argument is that you're doing a comparison of vastly different hardware and target markets. Lumping all Windows manufacturers and their laptop series into the same basket causes disenginous argument which is sadly perpetuated by Apple marketing. Doing a relevant comparison like Apple 13" MacBooks with Lenovo's comparable ThinkPad series usually shows very comparable quality hardware and software wise.
    - Gracana 12y ago
      I have one of the new thinkpads at work, and (off the top of my head) the screen can be bent in and out considerably with a light push of the finger, and it has an incredibly rattly/wavy/cheap plastic strip of buttons above the keyboard. I don't think their quality is what it once was.
xtrumanx 12y ago
As one of those people who believe Apple's hardware is overpriced, this story doesn't change my opinion on Apple's hardware. I recognize the quality in Apple's devices but I believe the price point is way higher than the extra quality found in their products. I've even recommended a MacBook to someone recently. Mainly for 2 reasons; their needs aligned with what the MacBook Pro would provide them with and they weren't the one paying for it.
- mfisher87 12y ago
  Not to mention putting together a collection of stories like this would give Apple fans a fallacious reference for why everyone should "just get a mac". Sorry, if a Mac doesn't fit my needs, I'm going to use a normal personal computer, not a walled garden. Doesn't matter how many obstacles I need to get through if I need a real personal computer, not someone else's ecosystem.
  - nmjohn 12y ago
    I'm curious what needs can't be met by using a mac. My desktop machine runs linux - currently it's ubuntu, but it over the last ~6 years it's also been centos, debian, and arch. I love linux. Two weeks ago a started a new job and got a macbook pro. I love it - and am completely surprised by it. I have not run into a single thing that I could do on linux I can't do on osx.
    - elsamuko 12y ago
      Run in a VM on a linux host with OpenGL enabled.
      - stith 12y ago
        That's not exactly "using a mac", though. That's running OS X in a VM.
    - vetinari 12y ago
      Oh, it will come. The first weeks are fine. But in time, you will find little things, that will annoy you. You will find things, that are fine in Linux or Windows, but not in OSX. (Like X apps not working, apps that assume some Linux-specific capability or API not available, differently behaving linker - if you are developer, etc.) And I hope you don't live in Eastern Europe. The Apple service there is attrocious, even little things like exchanging your power supply can take 3 or 4 weeks. Try using your computer without one...
peeky 12y ago
To be fair I've found Asus notebooks to be superb value for money hardware-wise, it's the drivers and software out of the box that are the problem.
- hrktb 12y ago
  I've switched to a macbook many years ago because of the drivers and software of my windows machine. Hardware is worthless without the software driving it, and in my experience the hunt/hacking of the problematic drivers comes back at every new major version of windows/linux you'll install on the box. In this respect, superb value hardware with crappy software is only worth it if you are willing to be tinkering on a regular basis.
  - wvenable 12y ago
    I'm the OP of this comment thread and I bought the Zenbook as an impulse purchase because it was many hundreds of dollars cheaper then the hardware-equivalent Macbook air at the time. I'm definitely willing to tinker, and it was certainly frustrating to get right, but now it's one my favorite devices. But if you're not a little tech-savvy it wouldn't be a good purchase.
subsection1h 12y ago
I own a Mac, but I recognize that Apple hardware is often grossly overpriced. For example, a 2014 Mac mini with a laptop-grade 3Ghz dual-core CPU, 16GB of RAM, a 512GB SSD, and an integrated GPU costs $1,699. That's ridiculous.
- Brian-Puccio 12y ago
  Every Mac site and enthusiast has been complaining that you're better off in many performance cases with the 2012 Mac Mini, if you insist on a basic desktop sans monitor (which everyone admits is not Apple's forte, they concentrate on their portables and there are a few performance cases where a Mac Pro makes sense). In short, you've picked what even Apple sites and enthusiasts claim is their worst choice.
PavlovsCat 12y ago
That reminds me of the way people sometimes defend flaws of their own nation by pointing out that it's worse elsewhere. So everybody points to North Korea, and North Korea points to outer space which is even more hostile to life. It's great for making people feel better, but completely useless to improve anything at all.
motoboi 12y ago
This thread was going fine until someone talked about how apple is superior to all other manufacturers together. This, obviously, needed a proper position from those who believe that Apple is not superior. This whole "Apple is perfect" versus "Apple is for idiots" is pointless, as the majority here already knows. But some people insist in degrading a perfectly fine thread just to reproduce it here. Grow up, guys. BTW, I'm curious why people are allowed to talk about Google with the same adoration others talk of Apple but receive no counter arguments. Is Hacker News audience biased towards Google or Google is just consensus?
throwawaykf05 12y ago
Sure, while you go collect those, here are a couple of the many collections that already exist for various Mac products: https://discussions.apple.com/community/notebooks/macbook_pro https://discussions.apple.com/community/notebooks/macbook_pr... http://www.mac-help.com/forums/mac-notebooks.3/ http://www.mac-help.com/forums/mac-notebooks.3/ I find myself trawling through these posts for help pretty regularly. And of course, forums like are from comprehensive. The most recent issue with my MBP in fact doesn't show up on any of these forums: it involved the keyboard and trackpad being totally irresponsive when my MBP woke from sleep. After many wild goose chases such as “reset the SMC”, I stumbled onto the fix by luck. Turns out it kept looking for a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse on waking up, totally ignoring the peripherals integrated into the notebook itself. The solution? Turning off Bluetooth. Sure, simple enough to fix, but “turn off Bluetooth” is not far from “you're holding it wrong”.

by nikanj 12y ago

I should start an online collection of stories like this, so I could refer people to it when they complain about Apple hardware being overpriced and/or only bought by idiots.

ivanca 12y ago

Yeah, an also note awesome laptops like an Acer I got for $400 5 years ago and despite many many hard hits against the floor it still works and has the same battery life length. This is true, but the problem with anecdotal experience is that you can "prove" anything with it.

gmac 12y ago
It's not as simple as: all Apple products are perfect and all Windows laptops are terrible. But the chances of your Apple hardware having a horrible fault, in my experience, are very significantly lower. And if it does have a horrible fault, it almost certainly won't be a stupid and maddening one caused by a third-party driver.
- izacus 12y ago
  So chances are that 2000-3000$ piece of equpment have less faults than 300$-3000$ piece of equipment? The problem with your argument is that you're doing a comparison of vastly different hardware and target markets. Lumping all Windows manufacturers and their laptop series into the same basket causes disenginous argument which is sadly perpetuated by Apple marketing. Doing a relevant comparison like Apple 13" MacBooks with Lenovo's comparable ThinkPad series usually shows very comparable quality hardware and software wise.
  - Gracana 12y ago
    I have one of the new thinkpads at work, and (off the top of my head) the screen can be bent in and out considerably with a light push of the finger, and it has an incredibly rattly/wavy/cheap plastic strip of buttons above the keyboard. I don't think their quality is what it once was.

xtrumanx 12y ago

As one of those people who believe Apple's hardware is overpriced, this story doesn't change my opinion on Apple's hardware. I recognize the quality in Apple's devices but I believe the price point is way higher than the extra quality found in their products. I've even recommended a MacBook to someone recently. Mainly for 2 reasons; their needs aligned with what the MacBook Pro would provide them with and they weren't the one paying for it.

mfisher87 12y ago
Not to mention putting together a collection of stories like this would give Apple fans a fallacious reference for why everyone should "just get a mac". Sorry, if a Mac doesn't fit my needs, I'm going to use a normal personal computer, not a walled garden. Doesn't matter how many obstacles I need to get through if I need a real personal computer, not someone else's ecosystem.
- nmjohn 12y ago
  I'm curious what needs can't be met by using a mac. My desktop machine runs linux - currently it's ubuntu, but it over the last ~6 years it's also been centos, debian, and arch. I love linux. Two weeks ago a started a new job and got a macbook pro. I love it - and am completely surprised by it. I have not run into a single thing that I could do on linux I can't do on osx.
  - elsamuko 12y ago
    Run in a VM on a linux host with OpenGL enabled.
    - stith 12y ago
      That's not exactly "using a mac", though. That's running OS X in a VM.
  - vetinari 12y ago
    Oh, it will come. The first weeks are fine. But in time, you will find little things, that will annoy you. You will find things, that are fine in Linux or Windows, but not in OSX. (Like X apps not working, apps that assume some Linux-specific capability or API not available, differently behaving linker - if you are developer, etc.) And I hope you don't live in Eastern Europe. The Apple service there is attrocious, even little things like exchanging your power supply can take 3 or 4 weeks. Try using your computer without one...

peeky 12y ago

To be fair I've found Asus notebooks to be superb value for money hardware-wise, it's the drivers and software out of the box that are the problem.

hrktb 12y ago
I've switched to a macbook many years ago because of the drivers and software of my windows machine. Hardware is worthless without the software driving it, and in my experience the hunt/hacking of the problematic drivers comes back at every new major version of windows/linux you'll install on the box. In this respect, superb value hardware with crappy software is only worth it if you are willing to be tinkering on a regular basis.
- wvenable 12y ago
  I'm the OP of this comment thread and I bought the Zenbook as an impulse purchase because it was many hundreds of dollars cheaper then the hardware-equivalent Macbook air at the time. I'm definitely willing to tinker, and it was certainly frustrating to get right, but now it's one my favorite devices. But if you're not a little tech-savvy it wouldn't be a good purchase.

subsection1h 12y ago

I own a Mac, but I recognize that Apple hardware is often grossly overpriced. For example, a 2014 Mac mini with a laptop-grade 3Ghz dual-core CPU, 16GB of RAM, a 512GB SSD, and an integrated GPU costs $1,699. That's ridiculous.

Brian-Puccio 12y ago
Every Mac site and enthusiast has been complaining that you're better off in many performance cases with the 2012 Mac Mini, if you insist on a basic desktop sans monitor (which everyone admits is not Apple's forte, they concentrate on their portables and there are a few performance cases where a Mac Pro makes sense). In short, you've picked what even Apple sites and enthusiasts claim is their worst choice.

PavlovsCat 12y ago

That reminds me of the way people sometimes defend flaws of their own nation by pointing out that it's worse elsewhere. So everybody points to North Korea, and North Korea points to outer space which is even more hostile to life. It's great for making people feel better, but completely useless to improve anything at all.

motoboi 12y ago

This thread was going fine until someone talked about how apple is superior to all other manufacturers together. This, obviously, needed a proper position from those who believe that Apple is not superior. This whole "Apple is perfect" versus "Apple is for idiots" is pointless, as the majority here already knows. But some people insist in degrading a perfectly fine thread just to reproduce it here. Grow up, guys. BTW, I'm curious why people are allowed to talk about Google with the same adoration others talk of Apple but receive no counter arguments. Is Hacker News audience biased towards Google or Google is just consensus?

throwawaykf05 12y ago

Sure, while you go collect those, here are a couple of the many collections that already exist for various Mac products: https://discussions.apple.com/community/notebooks/macbook_pro https://discussions.apple.com/community/notebooks/macbook_pr... http://www.mac-help.com/forums/mac-notebooks.3/ http://www.mac-help.com/forums/mac-notebooks.3/ I find myself trawling through these posts for help pretty regularly. And of course, forums like are from comprehensive. The most recent issue with my MBP in fact doesn't show up on any of these forums: it involved the keyboard and trackpad being totally irresponsive when my MBP woke from sleep. After many wild goose chases such as “reset the SMC”, I stumbled onto the fix by luck. Turns out it kept looking for a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse on waking up, totally ignoring the peripherals integrated into the notebook itself. The solution? Turning off Bluetooth. Sure, simple enough to fix, but “turn off Bluetooth” is not far from “you're holding it wrong”.