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playing devil's advocate: may be tip4commit is not your problem, but rather your country's laws are if these allow to so easily mock anyone and risk of being co

by hippich 12y ago

playing devil's advocate: may be tip4commit is not your problem, but rather your country's laws are if these allow to so easily mock anyone and risk of being convicted?

exDM69 12y ago
My country has several stupid laws but there's very little I can do to change them (apart from voting). That doesn't make it OK for someone to run a dodgy "donations/tip/contribution" service, asking for money on my behalf. This could potentially cause problems for lots of people around the world (seems like UK has similar laws too). Stupid foreign laws don't go away by ignoring them. Running an international service requires you to understand the legislations you operate in.
- jafaku 12y ago
  What if upvoting your comments was also made illegal in your country? Should we somehow guess that and stop?
  - dunder 12y ago
    exDM69 has opted into usage of HN voluntarily. People cannot opt out of the tip4commit service, it automatically opts you in.
    - jafaku 12y ago
      Are we really discussing whether someone should be held accountable for the actions of others? Like, I create an account for you without your knowledge and I send you to jail? Sounds like a useful app, but scary in the wrong hands.
  - bithive123 12y ago
    Your stupid analogy aside, you can't expect to avoid consequences because you were operating without a knowledge of the law. Stand in front of a judge and ask him if you should have guessed that X was illegal and see how far that gets you.
    - jafaku 12y ago
      "you can't expect to avoid consequences because you were operating without a knowledge of the law" Are you serious? I can't expect to avoid consequences for the crazy laws that get passed in other countries? I won't stand in front of any judges of your backwards country, I have enough with my own.
      - bithive123 12y ago
        Transactions are subject to the laws governing all parties, your convenience is not the issue.
- hippich 12y ago
  Alright, lets remove tip4commit server from picture. So to put you in jail I just need to find any project you work on, find your name and ask for donations on your behalf? Doesn't this sounds wrong to you? also, people who downvoting here - make sure to read HN rules about what downvotes are for. They are not to downvote different ideas, but to remove useless posts.
  - DanBC 12y ago
    > also, people who downvoting here - make sure to read HN rules about what downvotes are for. They are not to downvote different ideas, but to remove useless posts. Can you show me where it says that in the rules or guidelines or FAQ?
  - DanBC 12y ago
    If you set up something to collect donations for exDM69 they might have to explain to the police what was going on. That takes time, and costs money. exDM69 can avoid spending that time and money by asking you to stop collecting money for them. And so now you have a choice: offer to give timy amounts of money to someone who will never accept it; or you could respect that person's wishes by not accepting donations for them. (And that's the honest thing to do for the people giving you the money! If Bob tells you he's never going to accept the money it's dishonest to keep accepting donations for Bob).
  - exDM69 12y ago
    > So to put you in jail I just need to find any project you work on, find your name and ask for donations on your behalf? No, you would not be able to put me in jail. At worst, the penalty would be a fine. But that would not happen in practice. What would happen is that I receive a letter from the local authorities, demanding me to explain why there are donations being asked for under my name. Responding might need me to get legal advice and perhaps contacting the hosting behind the service to find out who is asking for donations and why. In other words, that would mean a lengthy paperwork process and perhaps some fees for legal advice. That would be a nuisance.
    - hippich 12y ago
rdtsc 12y ago
> rather your country's laws are if these allow to so easily mock anyone and risk of being convicted? Does it really matter, it is a problem for the project owners. This third party claim to have an altruistic purpose yet they end up being a problem. And now you are suggesting to sovle the problem it is somehow more rational for the project owner to either 1) pack up and move to another countr or 2) start lobbying their local legislature to change laws to accomodate whatever this third party (tip4commit) thinks is a more rational approach.

by hippich 12y ago

playing devil's advocate: may be tip4commit is not your problem, but rather your country's laws are if these allow to so easily mock anyone and risk of being convicted?

exDM69 12y ago

My country has several stupid laws but there's very little I can do to change them (apart from voting). That doesn't make it OK for someone to run a dodgy "donations/tip/contribution" service, asking for money on my behalf. This could potentially cause problems for lots of people around the world (seems like UK has similar laws too). Stupid foreign laws don't go away by ignoring them. Running an international service requires you to understand the legislations you operate in.

jafaku 12y ago
What if upvoting your comments was also made illegal in your country? Should we somehow guess that and stop?
- dunder 12y ago
  exDM69 has opted into usage of HN voluntarily. People cannot opt out of the tip4commit service, it automatically opts you in.
  - jafaku 12y ago
    Are we really discussing whether someone should be held accountable for the actions of others? Like, I create an account for you without your knowledge and I send you to jail? Sounds like a useful app, but scary in the wrong hands.
- bithive123 12y ago
  Your stupid analogy aside, you can't expect to avoid consequences because you were operating without a knowledge of the law. Stand in front of a judge and ask him if you should have guessed that X was illegal and see how far that gets you.
  - jafaku 12y ago
    "you can't expect to avoid consequences because you were operating without a knowledge of the law" Are you serious? I can't expect to avoid consequences for the crazy laws that get passed in other countries? I won't stand in front of any judges of your backwards country, I have enough with my own.
    - bithive123 12y ago
      Transactions are subject to the laws governing all parties, your convenience is not the issue.
hippich 12y ago
Alright, lets remove tip4commit server from picture. So to put you in jail I just need to find any project you work on, find your name and ask for donations on your behalf? Doesn't this sounds wrong to you? also, people who downvoting here - make sure to read HN rules about what downvotes are for. They are not to downvote different ideas, but to remove useless posts.
- DanBC 12y ago
  > also, people who downvoting here - make sure to read HN rules about what downvotes are for. They are not to downvote different ideas, but to remove useless posts. Can you show me where it says that in the rules or guidelines or FAQ?
- DanBC 12y ago
  If you set up something to collect donations for exDM69 they might have to explain to the police what was going on. That takes time, and costs money. exDM69 can avoid spending that time and money by asking you to stop collecting money for them. And so now you have a choice: offer to give timy amounts of money to someone who will never accept it; or you could respect that person's wishes by not accepting donations for them. (And that's the honest thing to do for the people giving you the money! If Bob tells you he's never going to accept the money it's dishonest to keep accepting donations for Bob).
- exDM69 12y ago
  > So to put you in jail I just need to find any project you work on, find your name and ask for donations on your behalf? No, you would not be able to put me in jail. At worst, the penalty would be a fine. But that would not happen in practice. What would happen is that I receive a letter from the local authorities, demanding me to explain why there are donations being asked for under my name. Responding might need me to get legal advice and perhaps contacting the hosting behind the service to find out who is asking for donations and why. In other words, that would mean a lengthy paperwork process and perhaps some fees for legal advice. That would be a nuisance.
  - hippich 12y ago

rdtsc 12y ago

> rather your country's laws are if these allow to so easily mock anyone and risk of being convicted? Does it really matter, it is a problem for the project owners. This third party claim to have an altruistic purpose yet they end up being a problem. And now you are suggesting to sovle the problem it is somehow more rational for the project owner to either 1) pack up and move to another countr or 2) start lobbying their local legislature to change laws to accomodate whatever this third party (tip4commit) thinks is a more rational approach.