5 ms·

Ask HN: Do I have the wrong university or the wrong attitude?

I'm a Communications Design major (art school) at Washington University in St. Louis. For those of you unaware, that would be smack-dab in the middle of the mid-west, though I'm originally from New York. I'm in my Junior year, and I've been thinking about whether or not I made the wrong choice of school, or if I just have the wrong attitude. I've always been a driven individual and, despite being in the art school, I do paid freelance web development on my own time (and have been for about 7 years). As well, I've consistently been trying to build/launch a start-up by myself, but--as many of you know--doing it solo is very difficult. I've been hoping to find someone that I can bounce ideas off of, keep me on task, and help handle the work (and vice-versa for them to me). In that vein, I've been looking for a co-founder or even someone with an entrepreneurial spirit to connect with within the WashU community. What I've found has been fairly disappointing -- the vast majority of students have no interest in running their own business (or, less importantly, lack any sort of real programming experience) and are perfectly happy heading towards being a small cog in a large corporation. Even the majority of the faculty push this sentiment, and whenever I've explained my goals and my existing position (as a freelancer) to a faculty member, they look at me as though I have two heads. Now, I absolutely understand that outside of school, most people are of the same mindset, but I feel as though it is unusually disproportionate here (or, likely, in the mid-west in general). I've gone through both the art and business schools to look for students that might have the right mindset, but have come up empty handed. Did I go to the wrong school, or do I have the wrong attitude/point of view?

dryicerx 17y ago
No you're totally fine, I think everyone who is getting in to web/tech startups is the same boat. And you major matters very little, almost everyone who is doing a web related startup has learned their skill set needed for the development of web/startup is learned by them selves... so you can too. Plus almost all universities cater to people who just want basic training and education so they can work at another company... so that's not a surprise no one is pushing you to a entrepreneurial path. As for looking for co-founders, go to technology related meetups and every city is bound to have a group there who are interested in startups as well (barcamps, meetup.com, etc). Also #startups is a good place to bounce ideas. Good luck!
mattiss 17y ago
Unless you go to Stanford, MIT, etc. most people you will meet will not be interested in startups. My advise is first, stick it out. You are pretty far along, no sense in changing now. Second, go to your CS department and hang out, I'm sure there will be at least a couple top notch hackers regardless of where you are. If that doesn't work, try to meetup with some people outside of school via tech communities or events. Djangopeople, meetup, HN, etc. that kind of thing.
albertsun 17y ago
The vast majority of people in general are not interested in running their own business. For most people, being a small part of a large corporation as we make it out to be here. You get security, structure and much more balance in life between work and other pursuits. That said, WashU is a top notch school, and I'm sure there are at least a few people who would be interested. Keep in mind that few people have starting a company as a goal. Most would probably be more receptive if you had a specific problem or industry that you want to focus on, and which they are also interested in.
fuzzmeister 17y ago
I'm a freshman here at Wash U. Have you heard of WUTE? It's a small but growing organization of tech entrepreneurs, check it out at wute.wustl.edu. I met with the head of the club yesterday (he's a computer science professor) and it seems like a great group of people. Also, did you attend the recent IdeaBounce? It's a great way to meet people interested in entrepreneurship; I actually found quite a few people who are just as involved in the technology community as I am. I'd love to talk to you, here's my email: http://mailhide.recaptcha.net/d?k=01vqV9OdbUlDk40CbmVWIumw==&c=DaqXQBcFeLRVRAcN-L1TMnWCapOMT9CgXxIcJbp6GZ4= http://mailhide.recaptcha.net/d?k=01vqV9OdbUlDk40CbmVWIumw==... As a whole, though, I do agree with your sentiment: a disheartening number of people here are perfectly content with getting their masters and scoring a steady paycheck at a large corporation. I suspect that the situation may be similar at most any other university, though. I don't see why it would be specific to WUSTL.
- dejectedstudent 17y ago
  I actually attended the first few WUTE meetings last year, though I wasn't all too impressed with the attendees (largely grad students with a medical lean). I haven't had a chance to check out an IdeaBounce, but you're right -- perhaps I should. In any case, I'll send you an email!
- ruff 17y ago
  Seconded the suggestion of IdeaBounce. There's actually a fair amount of entrepreneurial spirit at WashU, though a lot tends to be in the biomedical area. While I wasn't a WashU student (ex-fiance was), I participated in IdeaBounce for a while and eventually networked my way into several other groups in St. Louis that were doing interesting things. Beyond that, I had a similar experience as a student at Iowa State. Smallish town, a lot of folks focused on getting jobs, and the general creativity of the entrepreneurial groups a bit lacking. Eventually I made my way through to various programs about start-ups run by the state of Iowa and met a number of angels, early stage investors purely to meet other people doing interesting things (which landed me time doing sales at a photovoltaics company and business planning for a textbook coop idea). Really my goal was to meet a lot of people and learn a lot of things such that, when I moved out of Iowa (I'm in SF now), I felt like I made the most of the opportunity in the time I spent there. In the end, I think if you try to be open and meet a lot of people, you'll eventually find others that share your interest and match well. Use STL as a place to hone your skills, toss ideas off people, and prepare yourself for opportunities in the future. Perhaps something will stick between now and graduation but, if it doesn't, you'll have learned a lot.
sammcd 17y ago
I feel very similar. I go to college at the University of Kentucky. It is very rare that my fellow CS majors are on the same page as me. So many of them just want to get a job after college and do not have the same passion I have for writing code and starting companies. So far I have only found one or two exceptions. Maybe I'm just getting arrogant, but I am thinking that people like us are few and far between. I would love to hear if things are different at other colleges, but this is how it is where I am. Has anyone here been to a college where they find a lot of people that really love what they do and want to turn it into a company?
- deleted 17y ago
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- ruff 17y ago
  One thing to consider is looking outside the CS department. When I was in school, some of the most talented hackers who were actually trying start-up ideas were students in various random majors who spent much of their time toying with ideas and technology rather than focused on classwork. Didn't make them great students but several of them went on to launch moderately successful ventures.
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
ABrandt 17y ago
First off, congratulations on you're enrollment at WUSTL--I grew up in Saint Louis and always admired the university. I've never had an intimate view of the student body there, but I do believe the school to be as progressive as any. I'm of the opinion that, aside from a few select areas in the world, you will always have to search diligently for "someone with an entrepreneurial spirit [you] connect with." As a student at Bradley University a few hours away in the backwards city of Peoria, Illinois I know how that goes. The key (as usual) is to be relentlessly persistent. I can be outright annoying with my obsession with entrepreneurship, but I know it will pay off.
patio11 17y ago
You missed me by a few years, but go to an engineering school pizza socializer. (They still do those weekly, right?) The vast majority of the students have no professional programming experience and most are incompetent at programming -- and, for that matter, the pre-meds really suck at surgery and the pre-law can scarcely write a nastygram without sounding pleasant -- but you won't lack for smart, motivated people if you search.
chrischen 17y ago
I attend a state college--the mission statement of which states that it's purpose is to Give the average person an education. It's quite tough to find anyone truly passionate about their studies lest a startup. I'd recommend the CS department or Physics. Lots of physics student are creative, nontraditional, and self taught programmers.
- JacobAldridge 17y ago
  I see "Give the average person an education" I read "Give the person an average education" So I'm assuming they mean "giving all people the opportunity of an education" or some such; "average" is such a bad word to use in this context.
  - chrischen 17y ago
    I think they mean giving the average person the opportunity of an education. Although the quality of education here is probably average too. It's probably a throwback to days when the elite were the only ones that had college educations.
gexla 17y ago
School is time consuming. Freelancing is time consuming. Building a new business is time consuming. Either of the above could be a full time gig or more. Of the three, the best you could probably do is one full time and another part time. For students whom have full time school schedules and part time (or more) jobs which actually pay for survival, I'm not surprised they wouldn't be interested in starting a business.
perimosocordiae 17y ago
Have you tried talking with WU's chapter of ACM? They should be connected with the CS students that are competent and interested in more than just schoolwork. Also, remember that asking people to join your startup is a HUGE commitment. College is hard enough without having a full-time job (that offers no pay or benefits).
jacoblyles 17y ago
I think you'll find the situation is similar at most schools, outside of the top few known for their entrepreneurship.
- quizbiz 17y ago
  Does that mean I should have gone to Babson?
psyklic 17y ago
It's that way even at top universities. Finding a good business partner is like finding a wife! Students generally aren't passionate about their majors, PhDs usually only consider starting a company if they stumble across something big in their research, many people are just too busy or aren't risk-taking, etc. If I were you, I'd choose an idea that you're passionate about and start developing a product. When you have an early early demo, give some presentations at engineering lunches or clubs. Tell everyone that you hope to apply to YN or launch it, but you're looking for a partner. Usually if people have something to see and latch on to, they're more willing to help. Not only that, but they know you're serious.
jlees 17y ago
To add to the 'it's the same here' comments - I found the same at my university, in the UK. I was 'weird' for doing freelance work on my own and wanting to start a business. Others have chimed in with more local advice, but see if you can join the entrepreneurship club - hang out in the business school - go to events from other, nearby schools - connect with people online in the same region. Faculty certainly aren't the people to be getting inspired about business by. Most of them chose their comfortable offices and chairs precisely because the real world was too much bother ;-)
rick2047 17y ago
Maan... I thought such things were happening to me only. Though my focus was on getting a partner for my research/hacking escapades. I joined up university in great expectations that I will have to pick people from a fair sized pool of like minded people based on their compatible attitude. But I was so disappointed when I got to see a bunch of uninspired students which care less about anything above and beyond there curriculum. Then one of my seniors bluntly told me to stop looking for such people because I am just wasting my time. There were people with entrepreneur attitude, he being one had started a cheap tech magazine, its successful just because students will rather by a Rs20 livewire with 50 pages than a Rs120 digit with 100 pages of which they read only 40-50%. But hacking and independent research was just not the cup of tea of these get-the-job type people. He gave me a very good advise, instead of finding people of such talent I should develop on my own and then show people how much fun it is. Chances are that some people may join in.
srveit 17y ago
I live in St. Louis, although I did not attend WUSTL. I did some web development for two graduates from there. You may be interested in these two local groups of which I am a member: St. Louis Ruby Users Group (http://groups.google.com/group/stlruby http://groups.google.com/group/stlruby) and Lambda Lounge (http://lambdalounge.org/ http://lambdalounge.org/). Also Alex Miller is organizing The Strange Loop Conference (http://thestrangeloop.com/ http://thestrangeloop.com/) Oct 22nd and 23rd which you might find interesting.

dryicerx 17y ago

No you're totally fine, I think everyone who is getting in to web/tech startups is the same boat. And you major matters very little, almost everyone who is doing a web related startup has learned their skill set needed for the development of web/startup is learned by them selves... so you can too. Plus almost all universities cater to people who just want basic training and education so they can work at another company... so that's not a surprise no one is pushing you to a entrepreneurial path. As for looking for co-founders, go to technology related meetups and every city is bound to have a group there who are interested in startups as well (barcamps, meetup.com, etc). Also #startups is a good place to bounce ideas. Good luck!

mattiss 17y ago

Unless you go to Stanford, MIT, etc. most people you will meet will not be interested in startups. My advise is first, stick it out. You are pretty far along, no sense in changing now. Second, go to your CS department and hang out, I'm sure there will be at least a couple top notch hackers regardless of where you are. If that doesn't work, try to meetup with some people outside of school via tech communities or events. Djangopeople, meetup, HN, etc. that kind of thing.

albertsun 17y ago

The vast majority of people in general are not interested in running their own business. For most people, being a small part of a large corporation as we make it out to be here. You get security, structure and much more balance in life between work and other pursuits. That said, WashU is a top notch school, and I'm sure there are at least a few people who would be interested. Keep in mind that few people have starting a company as a goal. Most would probably be more receptive if you had a specific problem or industry that you want to focus on, and which they are also interested in.

fuzzmeister 17y ago

I'm a freshman here at Wash U. Have you heard of WUTE? It's a small but growing organization of tech entrepreneurs, check it out at wute.wustl.edu. I met with the head of the club yesterday (he's a computer science professor) and it seems like a great group of people. Also, did you attend the recent IdeaBounce? It's a great way to meet people interested in entrepreneurship; I actually found quite a few people who are just as involved in the technology community as I am. I'd love to talk to you, here's my email: http://mailhide.recaptcha.net/d?k=01vqV9OdbUlDk40CbmVWIumw==&c=DaqXQBcFeLRVRAcN-L1TMnWCapOMT9CgXxIcJbp6GZ4= http://mailhide.recaptcha.net/d?k=01vqV9OdbUlDk40CbmVWIumw==... As a whole, though, I do agree with your sentiment: a disheartening number of people here are perfectly content with getting their masters and scoring a steady paycheck at a large corporation. I suspect that the situation may be similar at most any other university, though. I don't see why it would be specific to WUSTL.

dejectedstudent 17y ago
I actually attended the first few WUTE meetings last year, though I wasn't all too impressed with the attendees (largely grad students with a medical lean). I haven't had a chance to check out an IdeaBounce, but you're right -- perhaps I should. In any case, I'll send you an email!
ruff 17y ago
Seconded the suggestion of IdeaBounce. There's actually a fair amount of entrepreneurial spirit at WashU, though a lot tends to be in the biomedical area. While I wasn't a WashU student (ex-fiance was), I participated in IdeaBounce for a while and eventually networked my way into several other groups in St. Louis that were doing interesting things. Beyond that, I had a similar experience as a student at Iowa State. Smallish town, a lot of folks focused on getting jobs, and the general creativity of the entrepreneurial groups a bit lacking. Eventually I made my way through to various programs about start-ups run by the state of Iowa and met a number of angels, early stage investors purely to meet other people doing interesting things (which landed me time doing sales at a photovoltaics company and business planning for a textbook coop idea). Really my goal was to meet a lot of people and learn a lot of things such that, when I moved out of Iowa (I'm in SF now), I felt like I made the most of the opportunity in the time I spent there. In the end, I think if you try to be open and meet a lot of people, you'll eventually find others that share your interest and match well. Use STL as a place to hone your skills, toss ideas off people, and prepare yourself for opportunities in the future. Perhaps something will stick between now and graduation but, if it doesn't, you'll have learned a lot.

sammcd 17y ago

I feel very similar. I go to college at the University of Kentucky. It is very rare that my fellow CS majors are on the same page as me. So many of them just want to get a job after college and do not have the same passion I have for writing code and starting companies. So far I have only found one or two exceptions. Maybe I'm just getting arrogant, but I am thinking that people like us are few and far between. I would love to hear if things are different at other colleges, but this is how it is where I am. Has anyone here been to a college where they find a lot of people that really love what they do and want to turn it into a company?

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
ruff 17y ago
One thing to consider is looking outside the CS department. When I was in school, some of the most talented hackers who were actually trying start-up ideas were students in various random majors who spent much of their time toying with ideas and technology rather than focused on classwork. Didn't make them great students but several of them went on to launch moderately successful ventures.

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

ABrandt 17y ago

First off, congratulations on you're enrollment at WUSTL--I grew up in Saint Louis and always admired the university. I've never had an intimate view of the student body there, but I do believe the school to be as progressive as any. I'm of the opinion that, aside from a few select areas in the world, you will always have to search diligently for "someone with an entrepreneurial spirit [you] connect with." As a student at Bradley University a few hours away in the backwards city of Peoria, Illinois I know how that goes. The key (as usual) is to be relentlessly persistent. I can be outright annoying with my obsession with entrepreneurship, but I know it will pay off.

patio11 17y ago

You missed me by a few years, but go to an engineering school pizza socializer. (They still do those weekly, right?) The vast majority of the students have no professional programming experience and most are incompetent at programming -- and, for that matter, the pre-meds really suck at surgery and the pre-law can scarcely write a nastygram without sounding pleasant -- but you won't lack for smart, motivated people if you search.

chrischen 17y ago

I attend a state college--the mission statement of which states that it's purpose is to Give the average person an education. It's quite tough to find anyone truly passionate about their studies lest a startup. I'd recommend the CS department or Physics. Lots of physics student are creative, nontraditional, and self taught programmers.

JacobAldridge 17y ago
I see "Give the average person an education" I read "Give the person an average education" So I'm assuming they mean "giving all people the opportunity of an education" or some such; "average" is such a bad word to use in this context.
- chrischen 17y ago
  I think they mean giving the average person the opportunity of an education. Although the quality of education here is probably average too. It's probably a throwback to days when the elite were the only ones that had college educations.

gexla 17y ago

School is time consuming. Freelancing is time consuming. Building a new business is time consuming. Either of the above could be a full time gig or more. Of the three, the best you could probably do is one full time and another part time. For students whom have full time school schedules and part time (or more) jobs which actually pay for survival, I'm not surprised they wouldn't be interested in starting a business.

perimosocordiae 17y ago

Have you tried talking with WU's chapter of ACM? They should be connected with the CS students that are competent and interested in more than just schoolwork. Also, remember that asking people to join your startup is a HUGE commitment. College is hard enough without having a full-time job (that offers no pay or benefits).

jacoblyles 17y ago

I think you'll find the situation is similar at most schools, outside of the top few known for their entrepreneurship.

quizbiz 17y ago
Does that mean I should have gone to Babson?

psyklic 17y ago

It's that way even at top universities. Finding a good business partner is like finding a wife! Students generally aren't passionate about their majors, PhDs usually only consider starting a company if they stumble across something big in their research, many people are just too busy or aren't risk-taking, etc. If I were you, I'd choose an idea that you're passionate about and start developing a product. When you have an early early demo, give some presentations at engineering lunches or clubs. Tell everyone that you hope to apply to YN or launch it, but you're looking for a partner. Usually if people have something to see and latch on to, they're more willing to help. Not only that, but they know you're serious.

jlees 17y ago

To add to the 'it's the same here' comments - I found the same at my university, in the UK. I was 'weird' for doing freelance work on my own and wanting to start a business. Others have chimed in with more local advice, but see if you can join the entrepreneurship club - hang out in the business school - go to events from other, nearby schools - connect with people online in the same region. Faculty certainly aren't the people to be getting inspired about business by. Most of them chose their comfortable offices and chairs precisely because the real world was too much bother ;-)

rick2047 17y ago

Maan... I thought such things were happening to me only. Though my focus was on getting a partner for my research/hacking escapades. I joined up university in great expectations that I will have to pick people from a fair sized pool of like minded people based on their compatible attitude. But I was so disappointed when I got to see a bunch of uninspired students which care less about anything above and beyond there curriculum. Then one of my seniors bluntly told me to stop looking for such people because I am just wasting my time. There were people with entrepreneur attitude, he being one had started a cheap tech magazine, its successful just because students will rather by a Rs20 livewire with 50 pages than a Rs120 digit with 100 pages of which they read only 40-50%. But hacking and independent research was just not the cup of tea of these get-the-job type people. He gave me a very good advise, instead of finding people of such talent I should develop on my own and then show people how much fun it is. Chances are that some people may join in.

srveit 17y ago

I live in St. Louis, although I did not attend WUSTL. I did some web development for two graduates from there. You may be interested in these two local groups of which I am a member: St. Louis Ruby Users Group (http://groups.google.com/group/stlruby http://groups.google.com/group/stlruby) and Lambda Lounge (http://lambdalounge.org/ http://lambdalounge.org/). Also Alex Miller is organizing The Strange Loop Conference (http://thestrangeloop.com/ http://thestrangeloop.com/) Oct 22nd and 23rd which you might find interesting.