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Thanks. I expected the downvotes. But it breaks my heart that we have such a beautiful planet and we treat it like a trash heap, all the while dreaming of Mars

Thanks. I expected the downvotes. But it breaks my heart that we have such a beautiful planet and we treat it like a trash heap, all the while dreaming of Mars and whatnot. Let's put our own house in order before we go off travelling.

noselasd 12y ago
"we" ? There's no we. There's just various groups of people. If one such group of < 10 000 people (spacex) can go off and build transportation to go to Mars, let them - no one should deny them to do that. Those same < 10 000 people probably doesn't know nor have the ability to fix all the problems on Earth, but they might be able to get to Mars.
JoeAltmaier 12y ago
There's no reason for everybody to stay home and do housekeeping, then there's a big beautiful universe out there. Dare to dream big!
- atlantic 12y ago
  If we can't even save our own home world, there is every reason to believe that we will do damage elsewhere. That being the case, best to stay home until we grow up a bit.
  - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
    The rest of our solar system is rocks. Hard to do much damage there. Anything we do has to be for the better (oxygen, water, life).
    - atlantic 12y ago
      Are you sure? I get the impression we're not very good at recognizing other life forms, or alternative forms of intelligence.
      - JabavuAdams 12y ago
        So we kill them. It wouldn't be the first time, and it won't be the last. This is life. Hopefully we'll learn something, except to be paralyzed by fear of doing damage.
  - ceejayoz 12y ago
    I rather suspect fossil fuel usage, deforestation, etc. won't be an issue on Mars.
    - PavlovsCat 12y ago
      That's great; but Mars, and even the solar system, is not "the universe".
      - ceejayoz 12y ago
        I suspect we're likely to solve greenhouse gas emissions long before we're able to get humans out of the solar system.
        zipwitch 12y ago
        I suspect that in turn depends on whether we're able to create 'digital' humans or not.(I'm not weighing in on whether or not we'll be able to, just pointing out that if we can, 'manned' interstellar travel becomes much, much easier.)
        PavlovsCat 12y ago
        The one easy option, voluntary restraint, isn't even on the table, not that I noticed. So what makes you think that's so likely, what about our current priorities and behaviours makes you so optimistic? Where is the economic incentive to solve the problem? Sure, it means more long-term life and profit, but having even 1% less quarterly profit so that in 1000 years some other company can exist at all is not exactly how we do things around here. Instead companies invested in fossil fuels are happily funding "global warming skeptics". That proverbial man who plants trees knowing he will never sit in their shade is proverbial for a reason.. it's an amazing and heartwarming little saying because it's a contrast to how we generally behave, as individuals as well as organizations and masses. We learn from repeated catastrophe.. sometimes, maybe. But this problem is not one we can have a lot of attempts at solving. Right now we are still moving into the wrong direction, and probably even accelerating.. sure, hitting a wall can make people change their direction, but not if it breaks their neck, so to speak.
  - duckingtest 12y ago
    Earth doesn't need saving, it's perfectly fine. Regardless, in a world with practical interstellar travel local damage is irrelevant - the universe is infinite. Milky Way alone contains at least 100 billion planets.
  - JabavuAdams 12y ago
    What is damage? Life is change. Life modifies the environment. The Earth does seem to be the most interesting body in this region of space, but I don't view it as some sacred jewel that should be protected against all change.
vidarh 12y ago
You talk as if we can only do one thing, or as if there's any chance that we will all agree to pull in one direction or agree about what the most critical threats are.
brent_noorda 12y ago
SHORT STORY: A conversation between parent and child, on Mars, sometime in the future: Parent: See that little blue dot in the night sky? That’s Earth. Child: What is Earth? Parent: Earth was the planet of our ancestors, before people came to Mars. Child: Who lives on Earth now? Parent: Nobody. It’s a dead planet. The actions of rich, selfish people destroyed it. Child: How did the rich, selfish people destroy Earth? Parent: They burned it up as fuel, getting to Mars.
throwaway234 12y ago
That's why you build a Mars-dreaming company AND an electric vehicle company :)

noselasd 12y ago

"we" ? There's no we. There's just various groups of people. If one such group of < 10 000 people (spacex) can go off and build transportation to go to Mars, let them - no one should deny them to do that. Those same < 10 000 people probably doesn't know nor have the ability to fix all the problems on Earth, but they might be able to get to Mars.

JoeAltmaier 12y ago

There's no reason for everybody to stay home and do housekeeping, then there's a big beautiful universe out there. Dare to dream big!

atlantic 12y ago
If we can't even save our own home world, there is every reason to believe that we will do damage elsewhere. That being the case, best to stay home until we grow up a bit.
- JoeAltmaier 12y ago
  The rest of our solar system is rocks. Hard to do much damage there. Anything we do has to be for the better (oxygen, water, life).
  - atlantic 12y ago
    Are you sure? I get the impression we're not very good at recognizing other life forms, or alternative forms of intelligence.
    - JabavuAdams 12y ago
      So we kill them. It wouldn't be the first time, and it won't be the last. This is life. Hopefully we'll learn something, except to be paralyzed by fear of doing damage.
- ceejayoz 12y ago
  I rather suspect fossil fuel usage, deforestation, etc. won't be an issue on Mars.
  - PavlovsCat 12y ago
    That's great; but Mars, and even the solar system, is not "the universe".
    - ceejayoz 12y ago
      I suspect we're likely to solve greenhouse gas emissions long before we're able to get humans out of the solar system.
      - zipwitch 12y ago
        I suspect that in turn depends on whether we're able to create 'digital' humans or not.(I'm not weighing in on whether or not we'll be able to, just pointing out that if we can, 'manned' interstellar travel becomes much, much easier.)
      - PavlovsCat 12y ago
        The one easy option, voluntary restraint, isn't even on the table, not that I noticed. So what makes you think that's so likely, what about our current priorities and behaviours makes you so optimistic? Where is the economic incentive to solve the problem? Sure, it means more long-term life and profit, but having even 1% less quarterly profit so that in 1000 years some other company can exist at all is not exactly how we do things around here. Instead companies invested in fossil fuels are happily funding "global warming skeptics". That proverbial man who plants trees knowing he will never sit in their shade is proverbial for a reason.. it's an amazing and heartwarming little saying because it's a contrast to how we generally behave, as individuals as well as organizations and masses. We learn from repeated catastrophe.. sometimes, maybe. But this problem is not one we can have a lot of attempts at solving. Right now we are still moving into the wrong direction, and probably even accelerating.. sure, hitting a wall can make people change their direction, but not if it breaks their neck, so to speak.
- duckingtest 12y ago
  Earth doesn't need saving, it's perfectly fine. Regardless, in a world with practical interstellar travel local damage is irrelevant - the universe is infinite. Milky Way alone contains at least 100 billion planets.
- JabavuAdams 12y ago
  What is damage? Life is change. Life modifies the environment. The Earth does seem to be the most interesting body in this region of space, but I don't view it as some sacred jewel that should be protected against all change.

vidarh 12y ago

You talk as if we can only do one thing, or as if there's any chance that we will all agree to pull in one direction or agree about what the most critical threats are.

brent_noorda 12y ago

SHORT STORY: A conversation between parent and child, on Mars, sometime in the future: Parent: See that little blue dot in the night sky? That’s Earth. Child: What is Earth? Parent: Earth was the planet of our ancestors, before people came to Mars. Child: Who lives on Earth now? Parent: Nobody. It’s a dead planet. The actions of rich, selfish people destroyed it. Child: How did the rich, selfish people destroy Earth? Parent: They burned it up as fuel, getting to Mars.

throwaway234 12y ago

That's why you build a Mars-dreaming company AND an electric vehicle company :)