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> But traffic jams won’t even be a problem anymore: freed from the wheel, we’ll be able to make phone calls, work on a computer, or have a business meeting from

> But traffic jams won’t even be a problem anymore: freed from the wheel, we’ll be able to make phone calls, work on a computer, or have a business meeting from inside our car (and maybe a doctor appointment, cf cosmopolis). This just seems foolish. If i'm on my way home to my daughters birthday party, then traffic is traffic. If I"m on the way to the airport, then traffic is still a problem. I can already make a call when driving and I can already take Uber or a taxi allowing me to do the things the author mentions any time I wish. Self driving cars don't solve any of those problems. Self driving cars have many uses, but the author's use cases aren't any of them. Traffic is still a problem regardless of whether or not i'm driving.

nick2 12y ago
Speed limits will be raised with fully automatic cars. The cars will also be able to travel closer to each other. The same roads will be able to handle bigger volume of traffic.
- onion2k 12y ago
  Only if all the cars are automatic...
k-mcgrady 12y ago
Won't self-driving cars significantly reduce traffic? They can drive closer together, maintain a consistent speed, and work out the most efficient route. We may also get smaller cars eventually (without such large dashboards, steering, gear sticks etc.) which would also help.
herval 12y ago
One of the biggest reasons of traffic is accidents. If self driving cars can reduce those, perhaps traffic will improve? Another problem is coordination: one slow driver can cause a huge jam. Perhaps coordinated, self-driving vehicles can reduce those? Granted, none of those things would work if you introduce one self-driving car in a jungle of meat-based drivers.
- jordanpg 12y ago
  Much of the enthusiasm for driverless cars assumes that the automated systems will work perfectly. Here is a fact: the systems will fail from time to time. Maybe a lot. The reaction to deaths that occur due to automated systems will be like Biblical wailing and gnashing of teeth. It will be utter outrage. Americans' (perceived) outrage to tragedy seems to be to usually be totally out of sync with the reality of the threat. It won't matter if they are safer statistically. In addition to more efficiency, the driverless cars need to have the best-designed fail-safe systems ever constructed or we will not see widespread adoption within decades, at least in the US.
  - rayiner 12y ago
    > Much of the enthusiasm for driverless cars assumes that the automated systems will work perfectly Because the software industry has such a sterling reputation for delivering complex systems that are nonetheless extremely reliable!
    - maxerickson 12y ago
      The automobile industry does. Or at least, they should. Even the very newsworthy recalls of recent years have only had consequences for very small numbers of people, across millions/tens of millions of vehicles (which still needs addressing, but the amount of problem being mitigated per recall dollar is growing smaller over time).
      - rayiner 12y ago
        The automobile industry doesn't have a great record with software, though. And a self-driving car is orders of magnitude more complex than a single bit of logic sitting in a throttle or engine controller.
        maxerickson 12y ago
        Well, with the drive assist stuff that is already on the road, we get to see how they do with an in between problem. (The early evidence is that they treat it as a serious engineering problem, but I'm sure no hands on the wheel needs a lot more complexity to fail safe than anything that is shipping)
mmcru 12y ago
once self-driving cars become the standard, intersections and merge points can be optimized for much greater efficiency, which will reduce traffic. also, speed limits will be eliminated.
- saosebastiao 12y ago
  Merge points maybe...but merge points are, by definition, bottlenecks. Even hyper-optimized, you are still limited by geometry. And definitely not intersections...despite what the fancy visual simulations propose. You would have to eliminate pedestrians to even get close to that.
dkrich 12y ago
I think that the answers to a lot of these problems lie in extremely complex algorithms and a drastic change in technology. Instead of each person owning and operating a car that operates exactly the same way that cars do today, I imagine pod-like cars that can connect and disconnect with any other car. Then, if every car knew where every other car in the area was headed and could coordinate, they could join and travel together, then disconnect and reconnect until each reaches its destination. So essentially a hybrid between trains and cars. Yeah, I know, science-fictiony and a stretch of the imagination, and I don't expect to see anything resembling this in my lifetime, but I do think there are ways that self-driving cars could operate in a much more efficient network-based system than with each driver making their own decisions based on what is immediately around them.
- philwelch 12y ago
  The biggest cause of traffic is wrapping each individual person in a 6 by 10 foot steel cage. http://giftrunk.com/gif/public-transit-vs-gridlock http://giftrunk.com/gif/public-transit-vs-gridlock

nick2 12y ago

Speed limits will be raised with fully automatic cars. The cars will also be able to travel closer to each other. The same roads will be able to handle bigger volume of traffic.

onion2k 12y ago
Only if all the cars are automatic...

k-mcgrady 12y ago

Won't self-driving cars significantly reduce traffic? They can drive closer together, maintain a consistent speed, and work out the most efficient route. We may also get smaller cars eventually (without such large dashboards, steering, gear sticks etc.) which would also help.

herval 12y ago

One of the biggest reasons of traffic is accidents. If self driving cars can reduce those, perhaps traffic will improve? Another problem is coordination: one slow driver can cause a huge jam. Perhaps coordinated, self-driving vehicles can reduce those? Granted, none of those things would work if you introduce one self-driving car in a jungle of meat-based drivers.

jordanpg 12y ago
Much of the enthusiasm for driverless cars assumes that the automated systems will work perfectly. Here is a fact: the systems will fail from time to time. Maybe a lot. The reaction to deaths that occur due to automated systems will be like Biblical wailing and gnashing of teeth. It will be utter outrage. Americans' (perceived) outrage to tragedy seems to be to usually be totally out of sync with the reality of the threat. It won't matter if they are safer statistically. In addition to more efficiency, the driverless cars need to have the best-designed fail-safe systems ever constructed or we will not see widespread adoption within decades, at least in the US.
- rayiner 12y ago
  > Much of the enthusiasm for driverless cars assumes that the automated systems will work perfectly Because the software industry has such a sterling reputation for delivering complex systems that are nonetheless extremely reliable!
  - maxerickson 12y ago
    The automobile industry does. Or at least, they should. Even the very newsworthy recalls of recent years have only had consequences for very small numbers of people, across millions/tens of millions of vehicles (which still needs addressing, but the amount of problem being mitigated per recall dollar is growing smaller over time).
    - rayiner 12y ago
      The automobile industry doesn't have a great record with software, though. And a self-driving car is orders of magnitude more complex than a single bit of logic sitting in a throttle or engine controller.
      - maxerickson 12y ago
        Well, with the drive assist stuff that is already on the road, we get to see how they do with an in between problem. (The early evidence is that they treat it as a serious engineering problem, but I'm sure no hands on the wheel needs a lot more complexity to fail safe than anything that is shipping)

mmcru 12y ago

once self-driving cars become the standard, intersections and merge points can be optimized for much greater efficiency, which will reduce traffic. also, speed limits will be eliminated.

saosebastiao 12y ago
Merge points maybe...but merge points are, by definition, bottlenecks. Even hyper-optimized, you are still limited by geometry. And definitely not intersections...despite what the fancy visual simulations propose. You would have to eliminate pedestrians to even get close to that.

dkrich 12y ago

I think that the answers to a lot of these problems lie in extremely complex algorithms and a drastic change in technology. Instead of each person owning and operating a car that operates exactly the same way that cars do today, I imagine pod-like cars that can connect and disconnect with any other car. Then, if every car knew where every other car in the area was headed and could coordinate, they could join and travel together, then disconnect and reconnect until each reaches its destination. So essentially a hybrid between trains and cars. Yeah, I know, science-fictiony and a stretch of the imagination, and I don't expect to see anything resembling this in my lifetime, but I do think there are ways that self-driving cars could operate in a much more efficient network-based system than with each driver making their own decisions based on what is immediately around them.

philwelch 12y ago
The biggest cause of traffic is wrapping each individual person in a 6 by 10 foot steel cage. http://giftrunk.com/gif/public-transit-vs-gridlock http://giftrunk.com/gif/public-transit-vs-gridlock