5 ms·

Although the details of this story are interesting and compelling, my initial read of this story left me thinking, "Six years is lengthy, eh? I don't think tha

by jMyles 12y ago

Although the details of this story are interesting and compelling, my initial read of this story left me thinking, "Six years is lengthy, eh? I don't think that's considered 'lengthy' in the USA." Our prison system terrifies me.

tptacek 12y ago
What's the longest anyone's actually served in custody for breaking into computers in the US, and what's the median sentence actually served? I don't have the data at my fingertips but if I had to bet, I'd bet that it's much less than 6 years. Google: [popehat whale sushi]. One reason you're terrified is that our system (idiotically) goes out of its way to deceptively terrify people. It is in practice not as bad as it (idiotically) tries to make itself seem. Six years is a long time for what this offense appears to be, though. ('at-fates-hands has more or less refuted this comment, though the whale sushi post is still very much worth reading.)
- at-fates-hands 12y ago
  >>> What's the longest anyone's actually served in custody for breaking into computers in the US, and what's the median sentence actually served? Here's a list for you: http://www.fierceitsecurity.com/story/hackers-chains-13-biggest-us-prison-sentences-electronic-crime/2014-05-21 http://www.fierceitsecurity.com/story/hackers-chains-13-bigg... Up until this week it was Albert Gonzalez for got 20 years for his role in the TJX retail break in. Remember, these are federal sentencing guidelines so no time off for good behavior. You get sentenced to 20 years, you do 20 years, period. >>> Six years is a long time for what this offense appears to be, though. This guy is also a repeat offender. In the US, I'm pretty sure with prior offenses with computers, they'd go for a 20-30 year sentence.
  - tptacek 12y ago
    You're totally right, I forgot about the credit card rings. I stand corrected.
    - coldtea 12y ago
      Well, besides that, if we put hacking aside, people go to jail for long terms for stupid offences all the time in the USA. Even for completely BS stuff due to the "3 strikes" thing. So in general his fears are not unsubstantiated.
  - tzs 12y ago
    > Remember, these are federal sentencing guidelines so no time off for good behavior. You get sentenced to 20 years, you do 20 years, period. That's not correct. See 18 USC 3624. You can get up 54 days credit for good behavior toward your sentence per year served.
    - ewoodrich 12y ago
      The parent may have confused good behavior with parole. The federal system does not have parole, so you can expect to serve at least 90% or so of your sentence, even with good behavior.
    - pluma 12y ago
      So 20 years is "merely" 17-20 years. Yay.
rtpg 12y ago
I would not wish a prison sentence on my (personal) worst enemies. Locking someone up for years should be an absolute last resort. I can't really imagine a worse thing than essentially becoming a slave to some prison for years. No freedom. This is the main issue I have with "jail the bankers!" narratives: Just take away their money, putting them in jail doesn't accomplish anything. This seems to be a big issue with American mentality in particular though. Such a big thirst for vengeance.
- tmmm 12y ago
  If there was no jail time, then everyone would try to do that (What could be the worst scenario - just losing all your stolen money). That wouldn't work.
  - newaccountfool 12y ago
    > If there was no jail time, then everyone would try to do that Really? Have you any studies to back that up or did you just extract it from your arse?
    - thisjepisje 12y ago
      Did you read what is in between the ()?
    - coldtea 12y ago
      Do you have studies to back up the fact that you just questioned what he said? Seriously, this "do you have studies" BS is getting out of hand. He made an argument (which btw includes more context than what you quoted), and stated his opinion of what would happen in a hypothetical situation. And it's also obvious to everyone who has ever casually conversed that "everyone" in this context means "many people", not literally everyone. You can disagree and say "That's not what's going to happen because ...", or even "Study such and such shows that this not necessarily happens...". Asking for studies to back up his thinking is BS. This is not some peer reviewed journal, nor is he writing a thesis. This is a simple conversation. And even if he gave 4-5 studies there would be absolutely no guarantees that those studies aren't crap, aren't invalidated by subsequent studies, aren't only describing what works in some specific cultural context, etc. This is sociology and human behavior, not physics or math to have some be all end all studies answering specific questions.
hawleyal 12y ago
Not to mention systemic torture and abuse.

by jMyles 12y ago

tptacek 12y ago

What's the longest anyone's actually served in custody for breaking into computers in the US, and what's the median sentence actually served? I don't have the data at my fingertips but if I had to bet, I'd bet that it's much less than 6 years. Google: [popehat whale sushi]. One reason you're terrified is that our system (idiotically) goes out of its way to deceptively terrify people. It is in practice not as bad as it (idiotically) tries to make itself seem. Six years is a long time for what this offense appears to be, though. ('at-fates-hands has more or less refuted this comment, though the whale sushi post is still very much worth reading.)

at-fates-hands 12y ago
>>> What's the longest anyone's actually served in custody for breaking into computers in the US, and what's the median sentence actually served? Here's a list for you: http://www.fierceitsecurity.com/story/hackers-chains-13-biggest-us-prison-sentences-electronic-crime/2014-05-21 http://www.fierceitsecurity.com/story/hackers-chains-13-bigg... Up until this week it was Albert Gonzalez for got 20 years for his role in the TJX retail break in. Remember, these are federal sentencing guidelines so no time off for good behavior. You get sentenced to 20 years, you do 20 years, period. >>> Six years is a long time for what this offense appears to be, though. This guy is also a repeat offender. In the US, I'm pretty sure with prior offenses with computers, they'd go for a 20-30 year sentence.
- tptacek 12y ago
  You're totally right, I forgot about the credit card rings. I stand corrected.
  - coldtea 12y ago
    Well, besides that, if we put hacking aside, people go to jail for long terms for stupid offences all the time in the USA. Even for completely BS stuff due to the "3 strikes" thing. So in general his fears are not unsubstantiated.
- tzs 12y ago
  > Remember, these are federal sentencing guidelines so no time off for good behavior. You get sentenced to 20 years, you do 20 years, period. That's not correct. See 18 USC 3624. You can get up 54 days credit for good behavior toward your sentence per year served.
  - ewoodrich 12y ago
    The parent may have confused good behavior with parole. The federal system does not have parole, so you can expect to serve at least 90% or so of your sentence, even with good behavior.
  - pluma 12y ago
    So 20 years is "merely" 17-20 years. Yay.

rtpg 12y ago

I would not wish a prison sentence on my (personal) worst enemies. Locking someone up for years should be an absolute last resort. I can't really imagine a worse thing than essentially becoming a slave to some prison for years. No freedom. This is the main issue I have with "jail the bankers!" narratives: Just take away their money, putting them in jail doesn't accomplish anything. This seems to be a big issue with American mentality in particular though. Such a big thirst for vengeance.

tmmm 12y ago
If there was no jail time, then everyone would try to do that (What could be the worst scenario - just losing all your stolen money). That wouldn't work.
- newaccountfool 12y ago
  > If there was no jail time, then everyone would try to do that Really? Have you any studies to back that up or did you just extract it from your arse?
  - thisjepisje 12y ago
    Did you read what is in between the ()?
  - coldtea 12y ago
    Do you have studies to back up the fact that you just questioned what he said? Seriously, this "do you have studies" BS is getting out of hand. He made an argument (which btw includes more context than what you quoted), and stated his opinion of what would happen in a hypothetical situation. And it's also obvious to everyone who has ever casually conversed that "everyone" in this context means "many people", not literally everyone. You can disagree and say "That's not what's going to happen because ...", or even "Study such and such shows that this not necessarily happens...". Asking for studies to back up his thinking is BS. This is not some peer reviewed journal, nor is he writing a thesis. This is a simple conversation. And even if he gave 4-5 studies there would be absolutely no guarantees that those studies aren't crap, aren't invalidated by subsequent studies, aren't only describing what works in some specific cultural context, etc. This is sociology and human behavior, not physics or math to have some be all end all studies answering specific questions.

hawleyal 12y ago

Not to mention systemic torture and abuse.