9 ms·

Pirate Bay founder Gottfrid Warg faces lengthy jail term

182 points by pmalynin 12y ago

jimrandomh 12y ago
> Defence lawyers said although the hack attacks were carried out using a computer owned by Mr Warg, he was not the person that used it to steal the files. Instead, they said, an unnamed hacker took over this machine and used it to carry out the attacks. Given the circumstances, this claim seems obviously true. People who break into computers usually use broken-into computers as proxies.
- tptacek 12y ago
  Are you familiar with the evidence the court considered? Is it instead the case that you'd have a hard time convicting anyone of hacking-related crimes under any circumstances because of the possibility that someone else might have been pulling the strings? Often when cases like this are reported, the evidentiary details don't make it into the story. It's easy to understand why someone would have a problem with a conviction when all the information they have is the BBC's 10,000ft summary. What's worse is, that 10,000ft summary can bias you by framing the whole story in your mind. You're skeptical right off the bat. That's probably always healthy! But it's good to know how your mind is being primed to digest new information, too. Obviously, sometimes you get the details and the case doesn't get less murky. The Aurenheimer case is an example; I don't have a clue what to think about it, and would like to think that whatever my prejudices are, I'd have been a not-guilty vote in a jury based on that doubt.
  - niels_olson 12y ago
    This comment should somehow be auto-posted into every HN thread about popular news accounts of criminal computer use. Maybe added to the HN guidelines. Or both.
  - jimrandomh 12y ago
    I've taken a look at the evidence, but the primary sources are in a foreign language so there's certainly a possibility I've missed something major. There are kinds of evidence that I would find convincing. Testimony from police that he had certain things open on the screen at the moment of arrest (as in the Silk Road case). Or hidden-camera video of him at a terminal, doing something bad. Or an audio recording of a voice call in which he tries to do social engineering. I haven't found anything like that. If someone posts a link, I'll certainly change my mind. But for know, all the evidence I know of is of a sort that one person could've forged.
  - zz1 12y ago
    Is it enough to be skeptical about the trial to know that prosecutors installed software on the piece of evidence without informing anyone?
    - tptacek 12y ago
      You don't need an excuse to be skeptical. Skepticism is healthy.
  - AnthonyMouse 12y ago
    > Is it instead the case that you'd have a hard time convicting anyone of hacking-related crimes under any circumstances because of the possibility that someone else might have been pulling the strings? That is kind of a serious problem. It's like the "open WiFi" defense. It's completely plausible that someone else actually used your WiFi or compromised your computer, but at the same time some people have this visceral reaction to allowing it as a defense because it's so hard to disprove and can be used by anyone.
- tzs 12y ago
  > People who break into computers usually use broken-into computers as proxies. That's possibly [1] true, but aren't those broken-into computers almost always the computers of ordinary users? How often do the people breaking into computers use broken-into computers belonging to a computer security expert who knows how to protect their systems from such break-ins? [1] Not sure about the "usually" part.
  - lawnchair_larry 12y ago
    How often do the people breaking into computers use broken-into computers belonging to a computer security expert who knows how to protect their systems from such break-ins? I know it's counterintuitive, but all the time. Until only a few years ago, it was almost as if every security expert was being publicly owned constantly. Hackers hack each other. The dirty secret that explains why they would hack those who can protect their systems: nobody knows how to protect their systems. The best firewall is not pissing off hackers.
    - tptacek 12y ago
      In the 20+ year history of computer crime prosecution, outside of this disputed case, what is the next most likely case where a hacker effectively framed another hacker who was then successfully prosecuted for the offense?
      - tedunangst 12y ago
        Shimomura and Mitnick.... ... ......
        mikecb 12y ago
        Shimomura was successfully prosecuted?
        tptacek 12y ago
        He's being facetious.
grecy 12y ago
I find it hard to believe that a guy as smart as Gottfrid would "hack" a government computer in 2012 when he's obviously extremely aware of the magnifying glass that's on him from governments and companies all over the world. > the pair downloaded police and social security files. What exactly are those? and what would he even want them for? > In a separate trial in 2013, Mr Warg and accomplice were found guilty of breaking into the computer systems of computer services firm Logica, which was doing work for Sweden's tax office and a bank. Again, why would he hack into a bank knowing so many eyes are on him?
- tptacek 12y ago
  That's a reasonable concern to have, but it's worth being aware that it's the exact same concern people had about Hans Reiser. Intelligence and judgement are orthogonal, and sometimes even in slight opposition. If you want to consider a different perspective: I'm an example of someone who does not have a hard time understand how someone who has enjoyed the rush of getting over on the entire media industry from behind a computer screen might find it harmless or at least personally safe to hack into some dumb server on the Internet and read documents off it. I've been a pentester for the last 10 years and in my experience, taking advantage of the knowledge of how to break into an application is an urge that takes some energy to suppress.
  - daeken 12y ago
    Could not agree more. There's always that voice in the back of your head wondering why you got a funky error message when your input contained an apostrophe; it doesn't take a lot to tip over the edge into something risky, even if you're conscious of the attention on you.
    - tptacek 12y ago
      Yep. You train a lot of app pentesters and you get used to warning them: do not try this at home. You know you can just edit a URL in your browser by just a couple characters and poof be an admin. It should would be interesting to find out what it's like to be an admin on this site... oh, wait, if I do that I might end up talking to a prosecutor. That's obviously not a normative description. I don't think it's good that the world works like that, although I probably blame different people than most of HN. Anyways, point being: the assumption that a very smart person wouldn't dream of breaking into a government server: does not at all square with my experience. Doesn't make the assumption wrong; it's just a data point.
hoozters 12y ago
Wow.. so in Sweden he first got 2 years, reduced to one. Imagine that being in the united states. What, 25 to life? Just saying, it's interesting how this concept of "justice" is treated so subjectively depending on where on this planet you are located. Nothing new under the sun, but still.
- fleitz 12y ago
  Yeah, it's pretty scary to live in countries that have higher incarceration rates than China, Russia, or North Korea. They hand out 25 year sentences like candy.
  - pmalynin 12y ago
    "North Korea" Citation please.
    - Sammi 12y ago
      31 sources on this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisons_in_North_Korea http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisons_in_North_Korea Though I don't see anything definite on prison rates. Hard to get precise info out of N Korea. This absolute dismal circumstances the prisoners suffer is clear though.
      - deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
    - nikcub 12y ago
      North Korea have a network of internment camps where regime opponents are imprisoned - nobody really knows what the imprisonment rate is, but estimates[0] are 250,000-300,000 people. On a per capita rate, they would be about even with the United States (around 700 per 100k[1]) at the top end of estimates - which is worrying considering North Korea also practice a policy of "three generations of punishment" where entire families are collectively punished and you have children being born in camps. The land of the free and the most totalitarian state in the world with a horrible history of human rights abuses - it really shouldn't even be a contest as to who is worse, but unfortunately it is. [0] http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13618693-the-hidden-gulag http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13618693-the-hidden-gulag [1] Doesn't include territories, juveniles, military prison or immigration detention. Including those on parole or probation it increases to 3.2% of the population.
jMyles 12y ago
Although the details of this story are interesting and compelling, my initial read of this story left me thinking, "Six years is lengthy, eh? I don't think that's considered 'lengthy' in the USA." Our prison system terrifies me.
- tptacek 12y ago
  What's the longest anyone's actually served in custody for breaking into computers in the US, and what's the median sentence actually served? I don't have the data at my fingertips but if I had to bet, I'd bet that it's much less than 6 years. Google: [popehat whale sushi]. One reason you're terrified is that our system (idiotically) goes out of its way to deceptively terrify people. It is in practice not as bad as it (idiotically) tries to make itself seem. Six years is a long time for what this offense appears to be, though. ('at-fates-hands has more or less refuted this comment, though the whale sushi post is still very much worth reading.)
  - at-fates-hands 12y ago
    >>> What's the longest anyone's actually served in custody for breaking into computers in the US, and what's the median sentence actually served? Here's a list for you: http://www.fierceitsecurity.com/story/hackers-chains-13-biggest-us-prison-sentences-electronic-crime/2014-05-21 http://www.fierceitsecurity.com/story/hackers-chains-13-bigg... Up until this week it was Albert Gonzalez for got 20 years for his role in the TJX retail break in. Remember, these are federal sentencing guidelines so no time off for good behavior. You get sentenced to 20 years, you do 20 years, period. >>> Six years is a long time for what this offense appears to be, though. This guy is also a repeat offender. In the US, I'm pretty sure with prior offenses with computers, they'd go for a 20-30 year sentence.
    - tptacek 12y ago
      You're totally right, I forgot about the credit card rings. I stand corrected.
      - 12y ago
mixmax 12y ago
The courtcase has been followed closely by the Danish media, especially the tech-savvy version2.dk that has had a reporter in the courtroom every day of the trial. It has caused quite a stir as all sorts of problems with CSC, the prosecutor and police investigation came to light during the hearings. Some highlights: - CSC, that handles a large part of Danish infrastructure including social security numbers, police backend, etc. has dismal security. They don't even update their software as security patches become available. Warg had access to their mainframe for 9 months without them having a clue about it. The only reason they found out was because the Swedish police called them and told them. - username/password pairs for CSC's server were readily available on one of their subsites(!) - Warg turned off the logs on the CSC mainframe, and they didn't notice. It appears that logs were turned off for months. As a result CSC doesn't know whether data has been altered. We're talking about all police systems, social security systems, and more. - The police have not had their own investigative team at CSC, and haven't looked at the technical evidence. This has been done by CSC, which is an obvious problem. - The Danish police was contacted by Swedish police three times during 2012 because the evidence from a Swedish case turned up files from CSC, and the Danish police didn't respond as they apparently didn't find the information important. During the courtcase the Danish police's chief IT investigator was caught lying about this. - The prosecutor and judge were clueless, bordering on the hilarious, about technical issues. For instance the prosecutor refused to acknowledge that other user accounts except Wargs existed on the computer (there were 5 accounts), tried to paint putty as a hacking tool that only criminals would use, tried to establish Jacob Applebaum and Warg as friends because Applebaum retweeted one of Wargs tweets (only friends do that!), etc. etc. These are just the highlights...
- lucb1e 12y ago
  > tried to establish Jacob Applebaum and Warg as friends because Applebaum retweeted one of Wargs tweets (only friends do that!) I understand the ignorance displayed by the judge here, but did the judge also see being Applebaum's friend as a bad thing?
  - mixmax 12y ago
    Applebaum was an expert witness called in to testify on how a computer could be remote controlled, and the prosecutor tried to have him dismissed based on the retweet. He ended up testifying, so I guess the attempt wasn't successful.
jlouis 12y ago
Random guesses from a Dane about tomorrow where the length of the sentence is to be determined. You can come back in 24 hours and vote based on the real outcome of a couple of these points, hehe: - Anakata will get a sentence somewhere in the upper middle. My guess is 4-5 years of which he has already served some. - JT will get a somewhat mild sentence of nothing higher than 1 year. The case against him is pretty weak, compared to Anakata. - The case will almost instantly be appealed by Anakata. - JT may not want to appeal if the sentence is somewhere in the middle of the 2 years window. The reason is the extra jail time he has served will be compensated by the state and the state might be seeking a sentence in the middle to "encourage" him not to appeal. Appealing might increase the sentence and you would be paid less. The case might go all the way to højestreret, which is the highest court in Denmark. There is also a chance the case could end up in ECHR (European Court of Human Rights), though I feel that chance is slighter. It would depend on the sentence of JT. If it ends up being a conditional sentence, then the jail time he has served is definitely going to have been unfair. As for Anakata, it is a bit more bleak I feel, since the argument of flight from the country applies, like it did in Sweden. What is really likely to push this to ECHR however, is the inhumane isolation jail treatment and harsh conditions they've both received. It is not at all clear in any way to me why they satisfied the criterion for that at all.
- Svip 12y ago
  JT's lawyer have already announced they won't appeal.
- olau 12y ago
  In case anyone's interested: You've got it mostly right. Warg was sentenced to 3.5 years. The sentence was appealed on the spot, but they're not going to release him as they think it's likely he's going to flee the country. JT was sentenced to 6 months, so he's entitled to compensation. Source: http://www.version2.dk/artikel/tre-et-halvt-aars-faengsel-til-hackerdoemt-svensker-anker-paa-stedet-70386 http://www.version2.dk/artikel/tre-et-halvt-aars-faengsel-ti...
tonylemesmer 12y ago
nitpick: headline slightly misleading as the crime isn't related to Pirate Bay other than its the same guy.
acd 12y ago
I think the long isolation by the Danish and Swedish state of Svartholm has been inhumane. http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-04/18/social-animals-life-expectancy http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-04/18/social-animal...
contingencies 12y ago
This is the part where I make a long statement urging apolitical youth to give a shit. Facts first. CSC is a core part of the military industrial complex. They make mass surveillance databases and military systems and are active globally. Gottfrid pissed off the both the MPAA and the US military/government. Look what they did to kimdotcom in total violation of law ... the NZ PM had to apologise personally. Gottfrid was illegally extradited from Cambodia. We're yet to see any evidence to the contrary, despite claims his visa was up apparently it wasn't, and this sort of put-on-plane-back-home treatment is not normal.. also, a fat Swedish aid package to Cambodia went through just after his extradition. Gottfrid's mother is an academic and has documented the strange behaviour of her own (Swedish) government around his arrest and treatment. Denmark is a place where it's almost impossible to use cash, where the ex-king kept a harem (it's now a bakery/hotel: I stayed in it), and where the authorities don't need a warrant to track your phone's location over the last year. The accusation is that, sitting in Cambodia, Gottfrid broke in to some computers for no apparent reason causing zero harm. The reality is that he was mistreated against any notion of personal rights, dragged halfway around the world and locked up in solitary confinement which is generally considered torture under UN definitions. He has been passed from state to state being mistreated. There is still no proof he did anything wrong or harmed anyone. However, there seems to be evidence he helped Assange decrypt the embarassing US military video 'collateral damage'. The only thing I conclude from this ruling is that the west in general is only a downward spiral in to totalitarianism, and that there is now an inter-state, overt attempt to suppress resistance (Assange, Dotcom, Anakata, etc.) with extreme media coverage to try to influence the rest of us. Where are we to go? How are we to resist? There is the west and its fall-in-line economic treadmill, or the hinterlands and their available extra-judicial means of extradition (ala Anakata) or oppression. Assange's warning about a transnational dystopia seems ever-more pertinent. You know what I think after having met him? Anakata was trying to understand what's going on in Europe and the world at large, and his heart was in the right place. It fits with his character. After all, his mother is an academic, he was raised to ask questions. Those who question are unjustly treated... the system is the problem. We can use the internet to create change. Don't let cryptocurrency abort as a foetus: it's being regulator-challenged to death. Don't let nominal democracy convince you to be placid. Ask your own questions, force some coverage for your discoveries, and change the world. Do it for Gottfrid.

182 points by pmalynin 12y ago

> Defence lawyers said although the hack attacks were carried out using a computer owned by Mr Warg, he was not the person that used it to steal the files. Instead, they said, an unnamed hacker took over this machine and used it to carry out the attacks. Given the circumstances, this claim seems obviously true. People who break into computers usually use broken-into computers as proxies.

tptacek 12y ago
Are you familiar with the evidence the court considered? Is it instead the case that you'd have a hard time convicting anyone of hacking-related crimes under any circumstances because of the possibility that someone else might have been pulling the strings? Often when cases like this are reported, the evidentiary details don't make it into the story. It's easy to understand why someone would have a problem with a conviction when all the information they have is the BBC's 10,000ft summary. What's worse is, that 10,000ft summary can bias you by framing the whole story in your mind. You're skeptical right off the bat. That's probably always healthy! But it's good to know how your mind is being primed to digest new information, too. Obviously, sometimes you get the details and the case doesn't get less murky. The Aurenheimer case is an example; I don't have a clue what to think about it, and would like to think that whatever my prejudices are, I'd have been a not-guilty vote in a jury based on that doubt.
- niels_olson 12y ago
  This comment should somehow be auto-posted into every HN thread about popular news accounts of criminal computer use. Maybe added to the HN guidelines. Or both.
- jimrandomh 12y ago
  I've taken a look at the evidence, but the primary sources are in a foreign language so there's certainly a possibility I've missed something major. There are kinds of evidence that I would find convincing. Testimony from police that he had certain things open on the screen at the moment of arrest (as in the Silk Road case). Or hidden-camera video of him at a terminal, doing something bad. Or an audio recording of a voice call in which he tries to do social engineering. I haven't found anything like that. If someone posts a link, I'll certainly change my mind. But for know, all the evidence I know of is of a sort that one person could've forged.
- zz1 12y ago
  Is it enough to be skeptical about the trial to know that prosecutors installed software on the piece of evidence without informing anyone?
  - tptacek 12y ago
    You don't need an excuse to be skeptical. Skepticism is healthy.
- AnthonyMouse 12y ago
  > Is it instead the case that you'd have a hard time convicting anyone of hacking-related crimes under any circumstances because of the possibility that someone else might have been pulling the strings? That is kind of a serious problem. It's like the "open WiFi" defense. It's completely plausible that someone else actually used your WiFi or compromised your computer, but at the same time some people have this visceral reaction to allowing it as a defense because it's so hard to disprove and can be used by anyone.
tzs 12y ago
> People who break into computers usually use broken-into computers as proxies. That's possibly [1] true, but aren't those broken-into computers almost always the computers of ordinary users? How often do the people breaking into computers use broken-into computers belonging to a computer security expert who knows how to protect their systems from such break-ins? [1] Not sure about the "usually" part.
- lawnchair_larry 12y ago
  How often do the people breaking into computers use broken-into computers belonging to a computer security expert who knows how to protect their systems from such break-ins? I know it's counterintuitive, but all the time. Until only a few years ago, it was almost as if every security expert was being publicly owned constantly. Hackers hack each other. The dirty secret that explains why they would hack those who can protect their systems: nobody knows how to protect their systems. The best firewall is not pissing off hackers.
  - tptacek 12y ago
    In the 20+ year history of computer crime prosecution, outside of this disputed case, what is the next most likely case where a hacker effectively framed another hacker who was then successfully prosecuted for the offense?
    - tedunangst 12y ago
      Shimomura and Mitnick.... ... ......
      - mikecb 12y ago
        Shimomura was successfully prosecuted?
        tptacek 12y ago
        He's being facetious.

grecy 12y ago

I find it hard to believe that a guy as smart as Gottfrid would "hack" a government computer in 2012 when he's obviously extremely aware of the magnifying glass that's on him from governments and companies all over the world. > the pair downloaded police and social security files. What exactly are those? and what would he even want them for? > In a separate trial in 2013, Mr Warg and accomplice were found guilty of breaking into the computer systems of computer services firm Logica, which was doing work for Sweden's tax office and a bank. Again, why would he hack into a bank knowing so many eyes are on him?

tptacek 12y ago
That's a reasonable concern to have, but it's worth being aware that it's the exact same concern people had about Hans Reiser. Intelligence and judgement are orthogonal, and sometimes even in slight opposition. If you want to consider a different perspective: I'm an example of someone who does not have a hard time understand how someone who has enjoyed the rush of getting over on the entire media industry from behind a computer screen might find it harmless or at least personally safe to hack into some dumb server on the Internet and read documents off it. I've been a pentester for the last 10 years and in my experience, taking advantage of the knowledge of how to break into an application is an urge that takes some energy to suppress.
- daeken 12y ago
  Could not agree more. There's always that voice in the back of your head wondering why you got a funky error message when your input contained an apostrophe; it doesn't take a lot to tip over the edge into something risky, even if you're conscious of the attention on you.
  - tptacek 12y ago
    Yep. You train a lot of app pentesters and you get used to warning them: do not try this at home. You know you can just edit a URL in your browser by just a couple characters and poof be an admin. It should would be interesting to find out what it's like to be an admin on this site... oh, wait, if I do that I might end up talking to a prosecutor. That's obviously not a normative description. I don't think it's good that the world works like that, although I probably blame different people than most of HN. Anyways, point being: the assumption that a very smart person wouldn't dream of breaking into a government server: does not at all square with my experience. Doesn't make the assumption wrong; it's just a data point.

hoozters 12y ago

Wow.. so in Sweden he first got 2 years, reduced to one. Imagine that being in the united states. What, 25 to life? Just saying, it's interesting how this concept of "justice" is treated so subjectively depending on where on this planet you are located. Nothing new under the sun, but still.

fleitz 12y ago
Yeah, it's pretty scary to live in countries that have higher incarceration rates than China, Russia, or North Korea. They hand out 25 year sentences like candy.
- pmalynin 12y ago
  "North Korea" Citation please.
  - Sammi 12y ago
    31 sources on this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisons_in_North_Korea http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisons_in_North_Korea Though I don't see anything definite on prison rates. Hard to get precise info out of N Korea. This absolute dismal circumstances the prisoners suffer is clear though.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
  - nikcub 12y ago
    North Korea have a network of internment camps where regime opponents are imprisoned - nobody really knows what the imprisonment rate is, but estimates[0] are 250,000-300,000 people. On a per capita rate, they would be about even with the United States (around 700 per 100k[1]) at the top end of estimates - which is worrying considering North Korea also practice a policy of "three generations of punishment" where entire families are collectively punished and you have children being born in camps. The land of the free and the most totalitarian state in the world with a horrible history of human rights abuses - it really shouldn't even be a contest as to who is worse, but unfortunately it is. [0] http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13618693-the-hidden-gulag http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13618693-the-hidden-gulag [1] Doesn't include territories, juveniles, military prison or immigration detention. Including those on parole or probation it increases to 3.2% of the population.

jMyles 12y ago

Although the details of this story are interesting and compelling, my initial read of this story left me thinking, "Six years is lengthy, eh? I don't think that's considered 'lengthy' in the USA." Our prison system terrifies me.

tptacek 12y ago
What's the longest anyone's actually served in custody for breaking into computers in the US, and what's the median sentence actually served? I don't have the data at my fingertips but if I had to bet, I'd bet that it's much less than 6 years. Google: [popehat whale sushi]. One reason you're terrified is that our system (idiotically) goes out of its way to deceptively terrify people. It is in practice not as bad as it (idiotically) tries to make itself seem. Six years is a long time for what this offense appears to be, though. ('at-fates-hands has more or less refuted this comment, though the whale sushi post is still very much worth reading.)
- at-fates-hands 12y ago
  >>> What's the longest anyone's actually served in custody for breaking into computers in the US, and what's the median sentence actually served? Here's a list for you: http://www.fierceitsecurity.com/story/hackers-chains-13-biggest-us-prison-sentences-electronic-crime/2014-05-21 http://www.fierceitsecurity.com/story/hackers-chains-13-bigg... Up until this week it was Albert Gonzalez for got 20 years for his role in the TJX retail break in. Remember, these are federal sentencing guidelines so no time off for good behavior. You get sentenced to 20 years, you do 20 years, period. >>> Six years is a long time for what this offense appears to be, though. This guy is also a repeat offender. In the US, I'm pretty sure with prior offenses with computers, they'd go for a 20-30 year sentence.
  - tptacek 12y ago
    You're totally right, I forgot about the credit card rings. I stand corrected.
    - 12y ago

mixmax 12y ago

The courtcase has been followed closely by the Danish media, especially the tech-savvy version2.dk that has had a reporter in the courtroom every day of the trial. It has caused quite a stir as all sorts of problems with CSC, the prosecutor and police investigation came to light during the hearings. Some highlights: - CSC, that handles a large part of Danish infrastructure including social security numbers, police backend, etc. has dismal security. They don't even update their software as security patches become available. Warg had access to their mainframe for 9 months without them having a clue about it. The only reason they found out was because the Swedish police called them and told them. - username/password pairs for CSC's server were readily available on one of their subsites(!) - Warg turned off the logs on the CSC mainframe, and they didn't notice. It appears that logs were turned off for months. As a result CSC doesn't know whether data has been altered. We're talking about all police systems, social security systems, and more. - The police have not had their own investigative team at CSC, and haven't looked at the technical evidence. This has been done by CSC, which is an obvious problem. - The Danish police was contacted by Swedish police three times during 2012 because the evidence from a Swedish case turned up files from CSC, and the Danish police didn't respond as they apparently didn't find the information important. During the courtcase the Danish police's chief IT investigator was caught lying about this. - The prosecutor and judge were clueless, bordering on the hilarious, about technical issues. For instance the prosecutor refused to acknowledge that other user accounts except Wargs existed on the computer (there were 5 accounts), tried to paint putty as a hacking tool that only criminals would use, tried to establish Jacob Applebaum and Warg as friends because Applebaum retweeted one of Wargs tweets (only friends do that!), etc. etc. These are just the highlights...

lucb1e 12y ago
> tried to establish Jacob Applebaum and Warg as friends because Applebaum retweeted one of Wargs tweets (only friends do that!) I understand the ignorance displayed by the judge here, but did the judge also see being Applebaum's friend as a bad thing?
- mixmax 12y ago
  Applebaum was an expert witness called in to testify on how a computer could be remote controlled, and the prosecutor tried to have him dismissed based on the retweet. He ended up testifying, so I guess the attempt wasn't successful.

jlouis 12y ago

Random guesses from a Dane about tomorrow where the length of the sentence is to be determined. You can come back in 24 hours and vote based on the real outcome of a couple of these points, hehe: - Anakata will get a sentence somewhere in the upper middle. My guess is 4-5 years of which he has already served some. - JT will get a somewhat mild sentence of nothing higher than 1 year. The case against him is pretty weak, compared to Anakata. - The case will almost instantly be appealed by Anakata. - JT may not want to appeal if the sentence is somewhere in the middle of the 2 years window. The reason is the extra jail time he has served will be compensated by the state and the state might be seeking a sentence in the middle to "encourage" him not to appeal. Appealing might increase the sentence and you would be paid less. The case might go all the way to højestreret, which is the highest court in Denmark. There is also a chance the case could end up in ECHR (European Court of Human Rights), though I feel that chance is slighter. It would depend on the sentence of JT. If it ends up being a conditional sentence, then the jail time he has served is definitely going to have been unfair. As for Anakata, it is a bit more bleak I feel, since the argument of flight from the country applies, like it did in Sweden. What is really likely to push this to ECHR however, is the inhumane isolation jail treatment and harsh conditions they've both received. It is not at all clear in any way to me why they satisfied the criterion for that at all.

Svip 12y ago
JT's lawyer have already announced they won't appeal.
olau 12y ago
In case anyone's interested: You've got it mostly right. Warg was sentenced to 3.5 years. The sentence was appealed on the spot, but they're not going to release him as they think it's likely he's going to flee the country. JT was sentenced to 6 months, so he's entitled to compensation. Source: http://www.version2.dk/artikel/tre-et-halvt-aars-faengsel-til-hackerdoemt-svensker-anker-paa-stedet-70386 http://www.version2.dk/artikel/tre-et-halvt-aars-faengsel-ti...

tonylemesmer 12y ago

nitpick: headline slightly misleading as the crime isn't related to Pirate Bay other than its the same guy.

acd 12y ago

I think the long isolation by the Danish and Swedish state of Svartholm has been inhumane. http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-04/18/social-animals-life-expectancy http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-04/18/social-animal...

contingencies 12y ago

This is the part where I make a long statement urging apolitical youth to give a shit. Facts first. CSC is a core part of the military industrial complex. They make mass surveillance databases and military systems and are active globally. Gottfrid pissed off the both the MPAA and the US military/government. Look what they did to kimdotcom in total violation of law ... the NZ PM had to apologise personally. Gottfrid was illegally extradited from Cambodia. We're yet to see any evidence to the contrary, despite claims his visa was up apparently it wasn't, and this sort of put-on-plane-back-home treatment is not normal.. also, a fat Swedish aid package to Cambodia went through just after his extradition. Gottfrid's mother is an academic and has documented the strange behaviour of her own (Swedish) government around his arrest and treatment. Denmark is a place where it's almost impossible to use cash, where the ex-king kept a harem (it's now a bakery/hotel: I stayed in it), and where the authorities don't need a warrant to track your phone's location over the last year. The accusation is that, sitting in Cambodia, Gottfrid broke in to some computers for no apparent reason causing zero harm. The reality is that he was mistreated against any notion of personal rights, dragged halfway around the world and locked up in solitary confinement which is generally considered torture under UN definitions. He has been passed from state to state being mistreated. There is still no proof he did anything wrong or harmed anyone. However, there seems to be evidence he helped Assange decrypt the embarassing US military video 'collateral damage'. The only thing I conclude from this ruling is that the west in general is only a downward spiral in to totalitarianism, and that there is now an inter-state, overt attempt to suppress resistance (Assange, Dotcom, Anakata, etc.) with extreme media coverage to try to influence the rest of us. Where are we to go? How are we to resist? There is the west and its fall-in-line economic treadmill, or the hinterlands and their available extra-judicial means of extradition (ala Anakata) or oppression. Assange's warning about a transnational dystopia seems ever-more pertinent. You know what I think after having met him? Anakata was trying to understand what's going on in Europe and the world at large, and his heart was in the right place. It fits with his character. After all, his mother is an academic, he was raised to ask questions. Those who question are unjustly treated... the system is the problem. We can use the internet to create change. Don't let cryptocurrency abort as a foetus: it's being regulator-challenged to death. Don't let nominal democracy convince you to be placid. Ask your own questions, force some coverage for your discoveries, and change the world. Do it for Gottfrid.