3 ms·

it has precisely nothing to do with the content Do certain types of content set off the ring-voting detection more frequently? The type of content likely infl

by zorpner 12y ago

it has precisely nothing to do with the content Do certain types of content set off the ring-voting detection more frequently? The type of content likely influences how it's shared and how people respond to it, which would affect how it's voted (and/or flagged). Algorithms are not unbiased, particularly when no one's bothered to study their confounding factors.

JoshTriplett 12y ago
I'm wondering that as well. In particular, it seems like content that's more likely to be shared via various social networks would be more likely to set off the ring-voting detector.
- minimaxir 12y ago
  You're confusing correlation with causation. Sure, many article at the top of HN after often posted elsewhere (e.g. today) because they are incredibly newsworthy. However, a HN post that people share on social media network for the purpose of upvotes is a different story.
  - JoshTriplett 12y ago
    I'm not assuming either correlation or causation; I'm suggesting a hypothesis that seems worth testing and evaluating. There's a difference in motivation between "check this interesting article out" and "please upvote me", but the ring-voting detector can't necessarily tell the difference.
    - minimaxir 12y ago
      > There's a difference in motivation between "check this interesting article out" and "please upvote me", but the ring-voting detector can't necessarily tell the difference.' In the former case, why would they be linking to HN in the first place, instead of the article itself? HN has a basic voting ring heuristic to ignore votes from direct links to HN submissions from a non-HN referrer for this reason.
      - JoshTriplett 12y ago
        I can't speak for other people, but personally, when I find a good article, I link to the source I found it through, rather than bypassing the source and linking directly to the article. (I don't do that when submitting stories to HN since HN considers that "blogspam", but personally I like finding new sources of good content, as well as sources of good discussion, rather than just the content itself. And in any case that's a heuristic for what to submit to HN rather than what to link to from elsewhere.) At a minimum, I would tend to put something like this: interesting article (link to article) via HN (link to HN). Though I'm certainly less likely to do that now that I know that HN does not like such links. I don't think it's appropriate to post something like that about one's own story, but for a story you found interesting and want to share, I think it makes sense.
dang 12y ago
> Do certain types of content set off the ring-voting detection more frequently? Sure—people posting their startups, for example, set off the ring detector more frequently than the typical news article. Friends voting for friends' blog posts, too. But is that a bias of the algorithm? That strikes me as a stretch.
- AndrewDucker 12y ago
  Interesting. How do you guard against coincidental rings? (i.e. a subgroup of people who all love, say, Lisp, and therefore always vote up Lisp stories. They're not an organised group - but they do tend to vote in concert.)
  - dang 12y ago
    I used to worry about that too, but it turns out not to be a big problem in practice. (I realize that's not a satisfying explanation, but this is one area where we can't give out details without enabling people to game the site. Having put a ton of effort into HN's anti-voting-ring measures, I dread the thought of having to climb all the way down the mountain and push that boulder up again.)

by zorpner 12y ago

JoshTriplett 12y ago

I'm wondering that as well. In particular, it seems like content that's more likely to be shared via various social networks would be more likely to set off the ring-voting detector.

minimaxir 12y ago
You're confusing correlation with causation. Sure, many article at the top of HN after often posted elsewhere (e.g. today) because they are incredibly newsworthy. However, a HN post that people share on social media network for the purpose of upvotes is a different story.
- JoshTriplett 12y ago
  I'm not assuming either correlation or causation; I'm suggesting a hypothesis that seems worth testing and evaluating. There's a difference in motivation between "check this interesting article out" and "please upvote me", but the ring-voting detector can't necessarily tell the difference.
  - minimaxir 12y ago
    > There's a difference in motivation between "check this interesting article out" and "please upvote me", but the ring-voting detector can't necessarily tell the difference.' In the former case, why would they be linking to HN in the first place, instead of the article itself? HN has a basic voting ring heuristic to ignore votes from direct links to HN submissions from a non-HN referrer for this reason.
    - JoshTriplett 12y ago
      I can't speak for other people, but personally, when I find a good article, I link to the source I found it through, rather than bypassing the source and linking directly to the article. (I don't do that when submitting stories to HN since HN considers that "blogspam", but personally I like finding new sources of good content, as well as sources of good discussion, rather than just the content itself. And in any case that's a heuristic for what to submit to HN rather than what to link to from elsewhere.) At a minimum, I would tend to put something like this: interesting article (link to article) via HN (link to HN). Though I'm certainly less likely to do that now that I know that HN does not like such links. I don't think it's appropriate to post something like that about one's own story, but for a story you found interesting and want to share, I think it makes sense.

dang 12y ago

> Do certain types of content set off the ring-voting detection more frequently? Sure—people posting their startups, for example, set off the ring detector more frequently than the typical news article. Friends voting for friends' blog posts, too. But is that a bias of the algorithm? That strikes me as a stretch.

AndrewDucker 12y ago
Interesting. How do you guard against coincidental rings? (i.e. a subgroup of people who all love, say, Lisp, and therefore always vote up Lisp stories. They're not an organised group - but they do tend to vote in concert.)
- dang 12y ago
  I used to worry about that too, but it turns out not to be a big problem in practice. (I realize that's not a satisfying explanation, but this is one area where we can't give out details without enabling people to game the site. Having put a ton of effort into HN's anti-voting-ring measures, I dread the thought of having to climb all the way down the mountain and push that boulder up again.)