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Thank you for this thoughtful comment, I think your writing precisely embodies what nevergetenglish was referring to. > "It is brutally hard for most people (a
by grownseed 12y ago
Thank you for this thoughtful comment, I think your writing precisely embodies what nevergetenglish was referring to.
> "It is brutally hard for most people (after the age of puberty, and perhaps especially for males) to learn to attend to sound distinctions that don't exist in the learner's native language."
I'm a native French speaker who learnt English in Scotland when I moved there (been living in mostly English-speaking countries ever since). As far as most people I meet are concerned, I have a very weird accent; the perception ranges from "he's Scottish" to "what the hell?" depending on where I go and who I talk to. In any case, while phonology is clearly very important, I would argue that it is not completely necessary for expressing yourself properly, at least in writing.
> "[...] another huge task for any language learner is acquiring vocabulary, and this is the task on which most language-learning materials are most focused. But often the focus on vocabulary is not very thoughtful."
This is sadly very true, though I honestly don't think there's a silver bullet when it comes to learning vocabulary. One additional source I would add to your "royal road to learning vocabulary" would be exposure to colloquial language, or slang at the extreme, i.e. listening to day-to-day conversations between "commoners". This is how I realized that there is often a "correct" way of saying something (as in purely grammatically correct), and the "natural" way (i.e. as expected by native speakers).
> "Every language has hundreds of tacit grammar rules [...] which reveal a language-learner as a foreigner when the rules are broken"
Continuing from my previous point, I think the opposite sometimes applies too. For instance, back in Scotland, I had to force myself to say "If I was" instead of "If I were", because the mistake has become so systematic that it has almost become a rule.
I think grammar is at least as important as vocabulary, particularly in a language like English where the language is so modular that words can fairly easily be made up, to the extent that they are understandable within a logical context, even if incorrect.
Finally, I would add culture as a possible fourth big task to add to your list. This may just be me, but there seems to be a dimension of language closely tied to the culture associated with it. There are idioms that make complete sense to me, yet I cannot explain why to my (French) family. This is ostensibly related to linguistic relativity[1].
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity
- jrm2k6 12y agoDo you also have an accent when speaking in French now? My family and friends told me that even when I speak French I have a weird accent. I have been living in the US, Canada and Hungary and have been speaking English daily for the last 3 years, and it is weird to me that I have now an accent in my native language
- touristtam 12y agoI am French as well and I have been living in Scotland for the last 10 years or so, and although I do agree on the perception that Scots have a somewhat, perceived, regional dialect, it is true Scottish-English is actually seen as a language; Words that are spoken only on this side of the border are not seen as merely a form of dialect. I agree as well to the advise given to listen to locals having conversation. It is probably the best way to learn colloquial conversation skills and therefore blend within the local population. On the accent, it is really hard to leave completely behind your native accent and requires huge amount of effort to replace it. I am not saying it is impossible, but as mentioned by grownseed, some folks will be completely oblivious to the fact that you are not a local and some other will just recognize a twang in the way you speak that isn't quite what they expect from another local. That being said: "practice makes perfect" ;)