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>He claims to want to encourage conversations He certainly does not want to encourage conversation. >Twitter has absolutely no way for me to share with others

by tux3 12y ago

>He claims to want to encourage conversations He certainly does not want to encourage conversation. >Twitter has absolutely no way for me to share with others that someone isn't a person I want in my communities; It seems that what this person wants is that everyone he talks to think like he does. That's not a community, that's an echo chamber with no disagreeing, no joking, no comments. It's okay if he doesn't like Twitter and doesn't want to use it, but wishing for it to go away makes me uncomfortable. Why should he care if others use Twitter ? I, for one, am happy with Twitter being alive even though I don't use it.

jsmthrowaway 12y ago
> It seems that what this person wants is that everyone he talks to think like he does. It's interesting that you say that, given that this is the same person who started a firestorm of drama by pull requesting gendered documentation in Node.js.
- walterbell 12y ago
  Good to know, thanks.
- serve_yay 12y ago
  Oh my god, everything about the discussion of this article is nuts. What are you talking about?!
  - codyb 12y ago
    I did some quick research and found this [0]. It seems he rewrote some documentation changing "he/she/etc" to "they/them/etc". Doesn't seem like a terrible thing to do really. I had never particularly thought about the issue. The pull request was denied by another guy for some reason. I can't imagine caring if the "he"s get changed to "they"s. Then everyone came out and started criticizing the other guy and it all blew up. I can see not necessarily spending time changing the documentation (it's certainly an easy task to set aside for later or not even think about in the first place) but to deny the pull request seems to be in bad taste in my opinion. It's not as if people who might normally use "he"s would see the the "they"s and have some sort of problem with it so if people want "they"s give the people "they"s if someone does it for you. [0] - http://www.dailydot.com/news/github-gendered-pronoun-debate/ http://www.dailydot.com/news/github-gendered-pronoun-debate/
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    - mintplant 12y ago
      The pull request was rejected as part of nodejs's standard policy of rejecting small changes to the documentation or code comments. When isaacs merged it in manually, bnoordhuis reverted the commit because it broke the rules: all changes landing in master had to be signed-off by one of the head maintainers, and his wasn't.
    - SamReidHughes 12y ago
      If anything was in bad taste, it was the pull request itself. You don't just go to a project you have never contributed to and tell them they're using pronouns wrong. And who talks like this to people: > I'm sorry to hear that. I don't really see why you wouldn't merge it if it's so trivial though. Surely making the library less hostile is worth a few seconds of our time to press the "merge" button? Do you see what's going on there? It assumes as a premise that his pull request makes the library "less hostile" when everybody knows that's not a universally agreed upon premise. Now if you want to argue with that comment, you have to unwind it to argue with the premise, which is going to lead to an exhausting conversation. So instead, people don't usually do that. This behavior serves to exclude and alienate people that don't agree with his premises. Alex Gaynor does this all the time and has been doing so at least since back when he posted on the Something Awful forums. Maybe he just wants everybody with views different than the ones he's adopted as part of his identity to just go away. In online communities where this sort of conversational tactic can't achieve that (Twitter, Hacker News), he leaves and publicly announces that those communities are beneath him. (This opinion is not borne of confirmation bias: Thanks to him using different usernames in different contexts, I've managed to independently come to hate him for this sort of thing three different times before realizing it was the same person all along.)
      - theorique 12y ago
        sounds very much like a person on /r/stredditsays
  - forgottenpass 12y ago
    What are you talking about?! News: https://gigaom.com/2013/12/02/slap-fight-in-node-js-land/ https://gigaom.com/2013/12/02/slap-fight-in-node-js-land/ The drama pull request in question: https://github.com/joyent/libuv/commit/804d40ee14dc0f82c482dcc8d1c41c14333fcb48 https://github.com/joyent/libuv/commit/804d40ee14dc0f82c482d... Alex authored the commit that 804d40e reverted, and when the drama was going down Alex rallied the troops on Twitter.
forgottenpass 12y ago
It seems that what this person wants is that everyone he talks to think like he does. You say "seems," but it doesn't just seem like that, it is exactly that. The terminology he uses is "safe space." It doesn't mean zero joking or disagreement, but only the type and levels he approves of (minor point, but I'll clarify because I don't want conversation to degrade to pedantics). Why should he care if others use Twitter ? If I had to jump into speculation, I'd say he cares because he feels excluded from a tool many of the rest of us can choose to ignore or live with.
- jshevek 12y ago
  >> The terminology he uses is "safe space." It doesn't mean zero joking or disagreement, but only the type and levels he approves "Safe space" is a much abused phrase. The meaning of 'safe' as it applies to physical harm is fairly easy for us to agree on. When it comes to emotional and psychological harm, what does it really mean? Where is the line drawn? It seems that some people will not hesitate to demand the complete absence of anything they find the least bit objectionable, all in the name of 'safe spaces'.
  - saraid216 12y ago
    > The meaning of 'safe' as it applies to physical harm is fairly easy for us to agree on. When it comes to emotional and psychological harm, what does it really mean? Where is the line drawn? Offer a meaning of safe as it applies to physical harm. Let's see if we actually agree to that as easily as you presume we would first.
    - noamyoungerm 12y ago
      A space where you have no reasonable expectation of any form of personal injury, perhaps excluding self-inflicted harm caused by negligence (e.g. cutting off your own hand in the kitchen, but not somebody else cutting off your hand in the kitchen).
      - jshevek 12y ago
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
72deluxe 12y ago
Perhaps the fact that he wants such a thing is a joke? Or a comment on the person himself? The irony.

by tux3 12y ago

jsmthrowaway 12y ago

> It seems that what this person wants is that everyone he talks to think like he does. It's interesting that you say that, given that this is the same person who started a firestorm of drama by pull requesting gendered documentation in Node.js.

walterbell 12y ago
Good to know, thanks.
serve_yay 12y ago
Oh my god, everything about the discussion of this article is nuts. What are you talking about?!
- codyb 12y ago
  I did some quick research and found this [0]. It seems he rewrote some documentation changing "he/she/etc" to "they/them/etc". Doesn't seem like a terrible thing to do really. I had never particularly thought about the issue. The pull request was denied by another guy for some reason. I can't imagine caring if the "he"s get changed to "they"s. Then everyone came out and started criticizing the other guy and it all blew up. I can see not necessarily spending time changing the documentation (it's certainly an easy task to set aside for later or not even think about in the first place) but to deny the pull request seems to be in bad taste in my opinion. It's not as if people who might normally use "he"s would see the the "they"s and have some sort of problem with it so if people want "they"s give the people "they"s if someone does it for you. [0] - http://www.dailydot.com/news/github-gendered-pronoun-debate/ http://www.dailydot.com/news/github-gendered-pronoun-debate/
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - mintplant 12y ago
    The pull request was rejected as part of nodejs's standard policy of rejecting small changes to the documentation or code comments. When isaacs merged it in manually, bnoordhuis reverted the commit because it broke the rules: all changes landing in master had to be signed-off by one of the head maintainers, and his wasn't.
  - SamReidHughes 12y ago
    If anything was in bad taste, it was the pull request itself. You don't just go to a project you have never contributed to and tell them they're using pronouns wrong. And who talks like this to people: > I'm sorry to hear that. I don't really see why you wouldn't merge it if it's so trivial though. Surely making the library less hostile is worth a few seconds of our time to press the "merge" button? Do you see what's going on there? It assumes as a premise that his pull request makes the library "less hostile" when everybody knows that's not a universally agreed upon premise. Now if you want to argue with that comment, you have to unwind it to argue with the premise, which is going to lead to an exhausting conversation. So instead, people don't usually do that. This behavior serves to exclude and alienate people that don't agree with his premises. Alex Gaynor does this all the time and has been doing so at least since back when he posted on the Something Awful forums. Maybe he just wants everybody with views different than the ones he's adopted as part of his identity to just go away. In online communities where this sort of conversational tactic can't achieve that (Twitter, Hacker News), he leaves and publicly announces that those communities are beneath him. (This opinion is not borne of confirmation bias: Thanks to him using different usernames in different contexts, I've managed to independently come to hate him for this sort of thing three different times before realizing it was the same person all along.)
    - theorique 12y ago
      sounds very much like a person on /r/stredditsays
- forgottenpass 12y ago
  What are you talking about?! News: https://gigaom.com/2013/12/02/slap-fight-in-node-js-land/ https://gigaom.com/2013/12/02/slap-fight-in-node-js-land/ The drama pull request in question: https://github.com/joyent/libuv/commit/804d40ee14dc0f82c482dcc8d1c41c14333fcb48 https://github.com/joyent/libuv/commit/804d40ee14dc0f82c482d... Alex authored the commit that 804d40e reverted, and when the drama was going down Alex rallied the troops on Twitter.

forgottenpass 12y ago

It seems that what this person wants is that everyone he talks to think like he does. You say "seems," but it doesn't just seem like that, it is exactly that. The terminology he uses is "safe space." It doesn't mean zero joking or disagreement, but only the type and levels he approves of (minor point, but I'll clarify because I don't want conversation to degrade to pedantics). Why should he care if others use Twitter ? If I had to jump into speculation, I'd say he cares because he feels excluded from a tool many of the rest of us can choose to ignore or live with.

jshevek 12y ago
>> The terminology he uses is "safe space." It doesn't mean zero joking or disagreement, but only the type and levels he approves "Safe space" is a much abused phrase. The meaning of 'safe' as it applies to physical harm is fairly easy for us to agree on. When it comes to emotional and psychological harm, what does it really mean? Where is the line drawn? It seems that some people will not hesitate to demand the complete absence of anything they find the least bit objectionable, all in the name of 'safe spaces'.
- saraid216 12y ago
  > The meaning of 'safe' as it applies to physical harm is fairly easy for us to agree on. When it comes to emotional and psychological harm, what does it really mean? Where is the line drawn? Offer a meaning of safe as it applies to physical harm. Let's see if we actually agree to that as easily as you presume we would first.
  - noamyoungerm 12y ago
    A space where you have no reasonable expectation of any form of personal injury, perhaps excluding self-inflicted harm caused by negligence (e.g. cutting off your own hand in the kitchen, but not somebody else cutting off your hand in the kitchen).
    - jshevek 12y ago

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

72deluxe 12y ago

Perhaps the fact that he wants such a thing is a joke? Or a comment on the person himself? The irony.