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Alright, so twitter is terrible because its 'broadcast' instead of 'communities', and you don't like 'broadcast' but you like 'communities', so twitter should g

Alright, so twitter is terrible because its 'broadcast' instead of 'communities', and you don't like 'broadcast' but you like 'communities', so twitter should go away. a) "I hope Twitter genuinely ceases to be." b) "I want a product that enables me to build and participate in communities[...]." Having a product that enables b) doesn't mean a) must happen. Why come to that conclusion. Because you don't like participating in it, it should cease to be? I don't get how people come to conclusions like this. It feels very self absorbed to conclude a) from b). Maybe I'm just allergic to opinion pieces with hyperbolic titles.

baddox 12y ago
I suspect a) is more a response to his perception that Twitter is unique in the large amount of harassment it hosts.
smacktoward 12y ago
I don't want to speak for the author, but an argument could be made that a product that: 1) Is massively popular; and 2) Has design flaws that actively sabotage conversation ... could lead to a situation where "B would be better if A went away," due to network effects. No matter how good an alternative B you build, people will keep on suffering with A despite its limitations, because that's where all the other people are. The existence of A sucks away oxygen that B needs to grow.
- Eiriksmal 12y ago
  Exactly. Shotgun-blast your puerile thoughts to your dozens/hundreds/millions of followers. Don't bother reading any responses it might garner—they're going to be just as base. Now you're in the habit of just shotgunning statements into the crowd, so when you do the same thing on Facebook, you've forgotten how to engage in a more lengthy, rational discussion. Or, even worse, you've grown up with Twitter and don't understand that people can have lengthy, meaningful conversations via the internet.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - Justsignedup 12y ago
    Basically because of this Twitter has been a place to share "interesting" links, pictures, jokes, and complaints. There's no discussion, no thought, no ability to back-n-forth. Worse is everything is very public so I have to be super duper careful that what I say doesn't get back to me professionally. There is no "private community" or anything. I find twitter useless except as a means to scream really loud not caring if anyone hears it.
  - eropple 12y ago
    YMMV, but I have fairly long and extended conversations on Twitter all the time. They're almost invariably not with tech people, though.
  - Karunamon 12y ago
    I'm pretty sure you'd be hard pressed to find any actual effect on conversational skills from the existence of a fucking short messaging site!
  - cicero 12y ago
    There is no shortage of intelligent, rational material on Twitter. It's all about who you follow. I choose to not follow anyone who posts junk. It is true that I can't do anything about foul responses except just ignore them.
- penprog 12y ago
  Twitter doesn't have a design flaw, it sets out to do what it wants and it does so spectacularly. Twitter is a platform for announcements not for conversations (although many try to use it for that very thing). People who think twitter is a conversation platform are #doingitwrong. Period. People who try to use twitter for conversations and get angry when it doesn't work well or some random stranger barges in and starts hurting their feelings obviously need to realize that there are a ton of other platforms that solve their problem. Namely message boards, any form of chat (irc, IM, etc), blogs, etc.
  - smacktoward 12y ago
    > People who think twitter is a conversation platform are #doingitwrong. Period. If millions of people insist on using your product as a conversation platform, it is a conversation platform, no matter what you intended it to be. A thing is what it is.
    - penprog 12y ago
      People use twitter for announcements and then for comments on those announcements. Very few people have actual conversations. When a conversation does happen, it's usually the root poster agreeing (or disagreeing) with the person that tweeted at them. I don't see anyone going to twitter with the initial intent of conversing with someone. Nobody goes onto their computer and says "Hey I'm gonna go message this person on twitter so we can have a conversation" Twitter isn't a conversation platform
      - jacquesm 12y ago
        Tell that to my mobile phone provider, who no longer accepts email as a viable support request path, but insists on me starting up a conversation with them on twitter or facebook (I don't have facebook, so that leaves twitter), requiring private information (so I have to 'follow' them first, and they have to 'follow' me in return), is one D away from exposing private info and in general totally unsuitable for the purpose.
- mikeryan 12y ago
  Has design flaws that actively sabotage conversation I've never thought of Twitter as a platform about having a conversation. Its a strange mix of a soapbox and some messaging but its inherently a public medium with the ability to have a public conversations but thats not its focus, its why brands love it, but its not Snapchat/Facebook or Google+.
- baddox 12y ago
  That's a bit like saying "I wish cell phone B would go away, because I prefer cell phone A, and if cell phone A was the only one people could buy, it would be cheaper for me to buy because of economies of scale."
  - lowboy 12y ago
    I think it's more like cell phone A can't even be produced because of economies of scale.
  - coldtea 12y ago
    No, it's like "I wish cell phone B would go away" because I prefer cell phone A, and I think cell phone B is POISONOUS to community and discussion, and leads to a worse society.
    - baddox 12y ago
      The trouble is that "worse society" is defined by the preferences of the speaker, not the aggregate preferences of everyone in society including the thousands (millions?) of users contently using Twitter in ways the speaker dislikes.
      - codebolt 12y ago
        I don't see how that's problematic at all. If my ideal society is different from that of most other people, it still doesn't mean I'm not entitled to my own opinion.
        baddox 12y ago
        I'm not suggesting that he's not entitled to his opinion and to voice it. I just think that it's a poor justification for action, and it's also slightly troubling for someone to earnestly desire a service with which millions of people are happy to disappear because it would make that one person happy.
        12y ago
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
- penprog 12y ago
  Ok, i'll bite Because twitter boosts "negative social behavior" (wtf? by whose definition?) you want a platform that allows people to report natural disasters, broadcast their products/movements, report corruption, communicate with their fan base, etc. to die? Also, let's all ignore that fact that twitter is used by a ton of government dissidents living in totalitarian governments to broadcast the oppression that occurs there.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - zanny 12y ago
    I'd like them to use a more open platform. I can get rss feeds of the tweets, but if Twitter drops the ball at any point all that communication infrastructure dies with it. Businesses aligning with your use case, especially a twitter user (who represents nil profit individually) is a fleeting thing.
mirsadm 12y ago
Twitter doesn't need to go away. I feel I'm not missing out on much by not using Twitter. Facebook is sort of forced upon me because I'd miss on a bunch of social activities if I didn't use it. With Twitter it exists and sometimes I use it. My life is not negatively impacted by avoiding it.
coldtea 12y ago
>Having a product that enables b) doesn't mean a) must happen. Why come to that conclusion. Because you don't like participating in it, it should cease to be? I don't get how people come to conclusions like this. It feels very self absorbed to conclude a) from b). Maybe I'm just allergic to opinion pieces with hyperbolic titles. No, it's simply that you ignore the fact that he didn't state his opinion as a conclusion in the form: (b) -> (a), nor he claimed (b)->(a) is some kind of deduction by itself. He just stated (a) and (b), which are independent thoughts. The link, if any, is his belief that social networks who don't work with communities are inherently bad (thus (a)). Why they are bad? That's what he provides his arguments about in the whole f... article.
_pmf_ 12y ago
The article is shallow and points out the obvious characteristics of Twitter. It's a waste of time to read.
jgalt212 12y ago
I like Twitter precisely because it's a broadcasting mechanism. I choose to follow people/organizations that are smarter or more in the know than me. I never directly communicate with people on Twitter.

baddox 12y ago

I suspect a) is more a response to his perception that Twitter is unique in the large amount of harassment it hosts.

smacktoward 12y ago

I don't want to speak for the author, but an argument could be made that a product that: 1) Is massively popular; and 2) Has design flaws that actively sabotage conversation ... could lead to a situation where "B would be better if A went away," due to network effects. No matter how good an alternative B you build, people will keep on suffering with A despite its limitations, because that's where all the other people are. The existence of A sucks away oxygen that B needs to grow.

Eiriksmal 12y ago
Exactly. Shotgun-blast your puerile thoughts to your dozens/hundreds/millions of followers. Don't bother reading any responses it might garner—they're going to be just as base. Now you're in the habit of just shotgunning statements into the crowd, so when you do the same thing on Facebook, you've forgotten how to engage in a more lengthy, rational discussion. Or, even worse, you've grown up with Twitter and don't understand that people can have lengthy, meaningful conversations via the internet.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- Justsignedup 12y ago
  Basically because of this Twitter has been a place to share "interesting" links, pictures, jokes, and complaints. There's no discussion, no thought, no ability to back-n-forth. Worse is everything is very public so I have to be super duper careful that what I say doesn't get back to me professionally. There is no "private community" or anything. I find twitter useless except as a means to scream really loud not caring if anyone hears it.
- eropple 12y ago
  YMMV, but I have fairly long and extended conversations on Twitter all the time. They're almost invariably not with tech people, though.
- Karunamon 12y ago
  I'm pretty sure you'd be hard pressed to find any actual effect on conversational skills from the existence of a fucking short messaging site!
- cicero 12y ago
  There is no shortage of intelligent, rational material on Twitter. It's all about who you follow. I choose to not follow anyone who posts junk. It is true that I can't do anything about foul responses except just ignore them.
penprog 12y ago
Twitter doesn't have a design flaw, it sets out to do what it wants and it does so spectacularly. Twitter is a platform for announcements not for conversations (although many try to use it for that very thing). People who think twitter is a conversation platform are #doingitwrong. Period. People who try to use twitter for conversations and get angry when it doesn't work well or some random stranger barges in and starts hurting their feelings obviously need to realize that there are a ton of other platforms that solve their problem. Namely message boards, any form of chat (irc, IM, etc), blogs, etc.
- smacktoward 12y ago
  > People who think twitter is a conversation platform are #doingitwrong. Period. If millions of people insist on using your product as a conversation platform, it is a conversation platform, no matter what you intended it to be. A thing is what it is.
  - penprog 12y ago
    People use twitter for announcements and then for comments on those announcements. Very few people have actual conversations. When a conversation does happen, it's usually the root poster agreeing (or disagreeing) with the person that tweeted at them. I don't see anyone going to twitter with the initial intent of conversing with someone. Nobody goes onto their computer and says "Hey I'm gonna go message this person on twitter so we can have a conversation" Twitter isn't a conversation platform
    - jacquesm 12y ago
      Tell that to my mobile phone provider, who no longer accepts email as a viable support request path, but insists on me starting up a conversation with them on twitter or facebook (I don't have facebook, so that leaves twitter), requiring private information (so I have to 'follow' them first, and they have to 'follow' me in return), is one D away from exposing private info and in general totally unsuitable for the purpose.
mikeryan 12y ago
Has design flaws that actively sabotage conversation I've never thought of Twitter as a platform about having a conversation. Its a strange mix of a soapbox and some messaging but its inherently a public medium with the ability to have a public conversations but thats not its focus, its why brands love it, but its not Snapchat/Facebook or Google+.
baddox 12y ago
That's a bit like saying "I wish cell phone B would go away, because I prefer cell phone A, and if cell phone A was the only one people could buy, it would be cheaper for me to buy because of economies of scale."
- lowboy 12y ago
  I think it's more like cell phone A can't even be produced because of economies of scale.
- coldtea 12y ago
  No, it's like "I wish cell phone B would go away" because I prefer cell phone A, and I think cell phone B is POISONOUS to community and discussion, and leads to a worse society.
  - baddox 12y ago
    The trouble is that "worse society" is defined by the preferences of the speaker, not the aggregate preferences of everyone in society including the thousands (millions?) of users contently using Twitter in ways the speaker dislikes.
    - codebolt 12y ago
      I don't see how that's problematic at all. If my ideal society is different from that of most other people, it still doesn't mean I'm not entitled to my own opinion.
      - baddox 12y ago
        I'm not suggesting that he's not entitled to his opinion and to voice it. I just think that it's a poor justification for action, and it's also slightly troubling for someone to earnestly desire a service with which millions of people are happy to disappear because it would make that one person happy.
        12y ago

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

penprog 12y ago
Ok, i'll bite Because twitter boosts "negative social behavior" (wtf? by whose definition?) you want a platform that allows people to report natural disasters, broadcast their products/movements, report corruption, communicate with their fan base, etc. to die? Also, let's all ignore that fact that twitter is used by a ton of government dissidents living in totalitarian governments to broadcast the oppression that occurs there.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- zanny 12y ago
  I'd like them to use a more open platform. I can get rss feeds of the tweets, but if Twitter drops the ball at any point all that communication infrastructure dies with it. Businesses aligning with your use case, especially a twitter user (who represents nil profit individually) is a fleeting thing.

mirsadm 12y ago

Twitter doesn't need to go away. I feel I'm not missing out on much by not using Twitter. Facebook is sort of forced upon me because I'd miss on a bunch of social activities if I didn't use it. With Twitter it exists and sometimes I use it. My life is not negatively impacted by avoiding it.

coldtea 12y ago

>Having a product that enables b) doesn't mean a) must happen. Why come to that conclusion. Because you don't like participating in it, it should cease to be? I don't get how people come to conclusions like this. It feels very self absorbed to conclude a) from b). Maybe I'm just allergic to opinion pieces with hyperbolic titles. No, it's simply that you ignore the fact that he didn't state his opinion as a conclusion in the form: (b) -> (a), nor he claimed (b)->(a) is some kind of deduction by itself. He just stated (a) and (b), which are independent thoughts. The link, if any, is his belief that social networks who don't work with communities are inherently bad (thus (a)). Why they are bad? That's what he provides his arguments about in the whole f... article.

_pmf_ 12y ago

The article is shallow and points out the obvious characteristics of Twitter. It's a waste of time to read.

jgalt212 12y ago

I like Twitter precisely because it's a broadcasting mechanism. I choose to follow people/organizations that are smarter or more in the know than me. I never directly communicate with people on Twitter.