5 ms·

While what you say is true, for the benefit of the readers not very familiar with India I would like to add a few things for context. If from the name of the po

by srean 12y ago

While what you say is true, for the benefit of the readers not very familiar with India I would like to add a few things for context. If from the name of the politician linked by the parent comment you come to the conclusion that homosexuality is frowned upon only by muslim politicians, you couldnt be more wrong. India is an incredibly high variance country. In some metros you would find gay pubs and bars, open kissing on the streets among gay partners with no one bothered a bit (if your state is one of the right wing ones then YMMV). Then again there are states (correlated with Hindi and Haryanvi speaking regions) where parents and family would kill their children, subject them to community sanctioned gang-rape because they married or proposed to marry someone considered different. Note that these 'punishments' and 'corrective measures' have popular sanction within the community and the perpetrators often voluntarily surrender after the incident. It is as if India remains frozen in different centuries in different regions, ranging from the modern to the grotesquely medieval. If you ask your local hindu rightwinger, its of course all the muslim invaders fault that they have to keep continuing these practices. Hinduism of course has done nobody no wrong, just been stabbed in the back (this should sound familiar). Anal sex (in fact anything apart from missionary position) continues to be a crime according to law but it is not something that gets enforced unless the enforcer has some specific axe to grind. That law certainly does not represent practice. Indian legal system is another weird thing. Most of the laws were set down by the colonizers, not to set a framework for justice but to facilitate control. We as Indians have done little to dispose that baggage, rather it has been actively embraced by those in power to exercise similar control, often with a lot of popular support. Quite interestingly, a marginalized community would see nothing wrong in cruel treatment of another marginalized community, often happily taking the lead in the harassment. A low caste person in a caste'ist state would see nothing wrong in hounding someone just because he is muslim, or belongs to a caste that is even lower. A gay person in such a state may see nothing wrong in persecuting other minorities.

avinassh 12y ago
> In metros you would find gay pubs and bars, open kissing on the streets among gay partners with no one bothered a bit I really doubt this. Kissing in public is highly frowned upon for heterosexuals only and there will be a shitstorm if gay couple found openly kissing. Take this incident, happened in September 2014 in Mumbai/Bombay, two couples were harassed by police just because they hugged publicly[0]. Police harass couples all the time if they found indulging in PDA. Read this BBC news report for instance[1]. Wiki [2] says: "Public display of affection is regarded as unacceptable in India. Kissing and hugging are taboo." [0] - http://www.mid-day.com/articles/mumbai-couple-harassed-fined-for-hugging-outside-mall/15609152 http://www.mid-day.com/articles/mumbai-couple-harassed-fined... [1] - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7871304.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7871304.stm [2] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_display_of_affection#India http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_display_of_affection#Ind...
- srean 12y ago
  > I really doubt this. You have not been frequenting the right places then. Come to Bombay, come to Delhi, its a frequent sight outside the gay bars, more so in Bombay than Delhi. Have to admit that the first time I saw it I was indeed caught by surprise. In some places you might get beaten up (yeah even possibly by the cops), or have acid thrown at your face (this punishment is reserved exclusive for women and applied mainly when they cut across caste or religious boundaries). According to many in the the current ruling political party, such acts of violence are eminently condonable and justified. As I said, it is very high variance place, I am firmly in my thirties now and yet I never stop learning / experiencing something new about my country as I travel. The key is to cut across those invisible boundaries. Come to the North East its a whole different country, different value system different culture. Given that you posted about Bangalore current events, I am sure you know of that sri ram sene idiot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sri_Ram_Sena http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sri_Ram_Sena http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pramod_Muthalik http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pramod_Muthalik EDIT: Yep!! some downvotes on all of my comments on this thread. Those took a while to come, I am expecting more. The belief system that I am complaining about does have their champions, and at politically significant levels.
  - argonaut 12y ago
    > EDIT: Yep!! some downvotes on all of my comments on this thread. I downvoted you because mentioning how you've been downvoted is quite possibly one of the most dull things you can say on HN.
    - zorbo 12y ago
      Downvotes on all your comments is rather rare, and usually an indication of downvote brigading. Nothing wrong with pointing it out, IMHO.
      - deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
      - snogglethorpe 12y ago
XJOKOLAT 12y ago
Great comment.
EGreg 12y ago
When you mentioned Hindus and being stabbed in the back I remembered reading about Thugs http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuggee http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuggee Didn't they go around stabbing and strangling people?
- srean 12y ago
  Ummm... not quite sure what you mean here. They were, you know, thugs or highwaymen. Not what I would call historical representative of Hindu political ambitions. My point was that there have been many bloody wars fought by Hindu rulers motivated primarily / singularly by political ambition. Thus I find this much popularized universally pacifist portrayal of Hinduism a little dishonest. Short of political ambition, the subcontinent was rich in resources enough that there were no compelling reasons for large conquests and colonization of others. Had that not been so, no one knows how that would have played out.
  - EGreg 12y ago
    I just mean you reminded me of it when you said "you know what I mean ..." and I remembered reading about that.
  - carona 12y ago
    I have read your comments on this thread. Seems like you found a nice way to disguise your Anti-Hindu venting by packaging it as something barely relevant to this thread. Very nice progress made from the original topic: Tim Cook says I'm gay -> it's difficult to be Gay in India -> It's not just Indian Muslims who are Anti-Gay, and by the way Indian (or is it Hindu?) society has lot of other faults -> Hindu rulers had fought wars, and some other thing about Hinduism is dishonest
- defen 12y ago
  I figured it was a reference to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab-in-the-back_myth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab-in-the-back_myth
  - judk 12y ago

by srean 12y ago

avinassh 12y ago

> In metros you would find gay pubs and bars, open kissing on the streets among gay partners with no one bothered a bit I really doubt this. Kissing in public is highly frowned upon for heterosexuals only and there will be a shitstorm if gay couple found openly kissing. Take this incident, happened in September 2014 in Mumbai/Bombay, two couples were harassed by police just because they hugged publicly[0]. Police harass couples all the time if they found indulging in PDA. Read this BBC news report for instance[1]. Wiki [2] says: "Public display of affection is regarded as unacceptable in India. Kissing and hugging are taboo." [0] - http://www.mid-day.com/articles/mumbai-couple-harassed-fined-for-hugging-outside-mall/15609152 http://www.mid-day.com/articles/mumbai-couple-harassed-fined... [1] - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7871304.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7871304.stm [2] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_display_of_affection#India http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_display_of_affection#Ind...

srean 12y ago
> I really doubt this. You have not been frequenting the right places then. Come to Bombay, come to Delhi, its a frequent sight outside the gay bars, more so in Bombay than Delhi. Have to admit that the first time I saw it I was indeed caught by surprise. In some places you might get beaten up (yeah even possibly by the cops), or have acid thrown at your face (this punishment is reserved exclusive for women and applied mainly when they cut across caste or religious boundaries). According to many in the the current ruling political party, such acts of violence are eminently condonable and justified. As I said, it is very high variance place, I am firmly in my thirties now and yet I never stop learning / experiencing something new about my country as I travel. The key is to cut across those invisible boundaries. Come to the North East its a whole different country, different value system different culture. Given that you posted about Bangalore current events, I am sure you know of that sri ram sene idiot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sri_Ram_Sena http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sri_Ram_Sena http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pramod_Muthalik http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pramod_Muthalik EDIT: Yep!! some downvotes on all of my comments on this thread. Those took a while to come, I am expecting more. The belief system that I am complaining about does have their champions, and at politically significant levels.
- argonaut 12y ago
  > EDIT: Yep!! some downvotes on all of my comments on this thread. I downvoted you because mentioning how you've been downvoted is quite possibly one of the most dull things you can say on HN.
  - zorbo 12y ago
    Downvotes on all your comments is rather rare, and usually an indication of downvote brigading. Nothing wrong with pointing it out, IMHO.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    - snogglethorpe 12y ago

XJOKOLAT 12y ago

Great comment.

EGreg 12y ago

When you mentioned Hindus and being stabbed in the back I remembered reading about Thugs http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuggee http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuggee Didn't they go around stabbing and strangling people?

srean 12y ago
Ummm... not quite sure what you mean here. They were, you know, thugs or highwaymen. Not what I would call historical representative of Hindu political ambitions. My point was that there have been many bloody wars fought by Hindu rulers motivated primarily / singularly by political ambition. Thus I find this much popularized universally pacifist portrayal of Hinduism a little dishonest. Short of political ambition, the subcontinent was rich in resources enough that there were no compelling reasons for large conquests and colonization of others. Had that not been so, no one knows how that would have played out.
- EGreg 12y ago
  I just mean you reminded me of it when you said "you know what I mean ..." and I remembered reading about that.
- carona 12y ago
  I have read your comments on this thread. Seems like you found a nice way to disguise your Anti-Hindu venting by packaging it as something barely relevant to this thread. Very nice progress made from the original topic: Tim Cook says I'm gay -> it's difficult to be Gay in India -> It's not just Indian Muslims who are Anti-Gay, and by the way Indian (or is it Hindu?) society has lot of other faults -> Hindu rulers had fought wars, and some other thing about Hinduism is dishonest
defen 12y ago
I figured it was a reference to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab-in-the-back_myth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab-in-the-back_myth
- judk 12y ago