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Excellent news. I am from India where being gay is a crime in this country. Leaders of this country believe that being gay is a disease and it can be 'cured'[0]

Excellent news. I am from India where being gay is a crime in this country. Leaders of this country believe that being gay is a disease and it can be 'cured'[0]. According to Indian Penal Code 377[1], if you are gay you can be imprisoned for life. I had a friend and two years ago he committed suicide because he was gay. In India it's not easy to be gay. Parents and societal pressures can make anyones life living hell. His parents made his life horrible, as if he had committed some crime and they never accepted him. Everyone around him were mocking. After his suicide also, his parents behave as if it was good riddance for them and they don't miss him at all. And rather they are happy because now they don't have to answer society. Just today morning I read a news[2] that a software engineer working in Infosys was booked for Sec 377 and put in jail. In June 2014, seven people were booked under Section 377 by the Bangalore Police [3]. So far 200 people have been prosecuted under this law [4]. That's the reason I don't see any famous Indian, those who work in movies or HNI, coming out and accepting they are gay. I really hope people in other countries also encourage actions of Tim Cook so that people have freedom to express their wishes and sexuality. [0] - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/05/india-health-minister-ghulam-nabi-azad-homosexuality-a-disease_n_890143.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/05/india-health-minist... [1] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_377_of_the_Indian_Penal_Code http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_377_of_the_Indian_Penal... [2] - http://www.bangaloremirror.com/bangalore/cover-story/Sec-377-slapped-on-Infosys-techie-after-wife-catches-his-gay-acts-on-spycam/articleshow/44964745.cms http://www.bangaloremirror.com/bangalore/cover-story/Sec-377... [3] - http://www.bangaloremirror.com/bangalore/cover-story/Six-months-after-SC-verdict-seven-booked-under-homophobic-law/articleshow/36777540.cms http://www.bangaloremirror.com/bangalore/cover-story/Six-mon... [4] - http://judis.nic.in/supremecourt/imgs1.aspx?filename=41070 http://judis.nic.in/supremecourt/imgs1.aspx?filename=41070

alexbecker 12y ago
Reading [1], I was absolutely disgusted not only by the facts of the case, but the tone of the reporting.
yourad_io 12y ago
Articles like these make me sympathize with Bond-style supervillains. :(
srean 12y ago
While what you say is true, for the benefit of the readers not very familiar with India I would like to add a few things for context. If from the name of the politician linked by the parent comment you come to the conclusion that homosexuality is frowned upon only by muslim politicians, you couldnt be more wrong. India is an incredibly high variance country. In some metros you would find gay pubs and bars, open kissing on the streets among gay partners with no one bothered a bit (if your state is one of the right wing ones then YMMV). Then again there are states (correlated with Hindi and Haryanvi speaking regions) where parents and family would kill their children, subject them to community sanctioned gang-rape because they married or proposed to marry someone considered different. Note that these 'punishments' and 'corrective measures' have popular sanction within the community and the perpetrators often voluntarily surrender after the incident. It is as if India remains frozen in different centuries in different regions, ranging from the modern to the grotesquely medieval. If you ask your local hindu rightwinger, its of course all the muslim invaders fault that they have to keep continuing these practices. Hinduism of course has done nobody no wrong, just been stabbed in the back (this should sound familiar). Anal sex (in fact anything apart from missionary position) continues to be a crime according to law but it is not something that gets enforced unless the enforcer has some specific axe to grind. That law certainly does not represent practice. Indian legal system is another weird thing. Most of the laws were set down by the colonizers, not to set a framework for justice but to facilitate control. We as Indians have done little to dispose that baggage, rather it has been actively embraced by those in power to exercise similar control, often with a lot of popular support. Quite interestingly, a marginalized community would see nothing wrong in cruel treatment of another marginalized community, often happily taking the lead in the harassment. A low caste person in a caste'ist state would see nothing wrong in hounding someone just because he is muslim, or belongs to a caste that is even lower. A gay person in such a state may see nothing wrong in persecuting other minorities.
- avinassh 12y ago
  > In metros you would find gay pubs and bars, open kissing on the streets among gay partners with no one bothered a bit I really doubt this. Kissing in public is highly frowned upon for heterosexuals only and there will be a shitstorm if gay couple found openly kissing. Take this incident, happened in September 2014 in Mumbai/Bombay, two couples were harassed by police just because they hugged publicly[0]. Police harass couples all the time if they found indulging in PDA. Read this BBC news report for instance[1]. Wiki [2] says: "Public display of affection is regarded as unacceptable in India. Kissing and hugging are taboo." [0] - http://www.mid-day.com/articles/mumbai-couple-harassed-fined-for-hugging-outside-mall/15609152 http://www.mid-day.com/articles/mumbai-couple-harassed-fined... [1] - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7871304.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7871304.stm [2] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_display_of_affection#India http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_display_of_affection#Ind...
anoncow 12y ago
Read through the comments of an indian news website. Makes me sad. We should love more. I hope people are better than that. A lot of sexuality based and religion based hate. I hope things improve. I hope people love more. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/tech-news/Being-gay-among-the-greatest-gifts-God-has-given-me-Apple-CEO-Tim-Cook-says/articleshow/44985469.cms http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/tech-news/Being-gay-...
- Myrmornis 12y ago
  Crikey, I always assumed the Times Of India had an intelligent readership.
  - srean 12y ago
    Far from it. People subscribe to it for their daily dose of cleavage in their newspaper supplements that can be passed of as journalism. In other words its mostly a tabloid. Some 10 years ago it used to be a really nice newspaper though and I mean really good. Their editorials used to be held up as examples of good writing skills. Now you would find typos, grammatical errors, not to mention factual errors. EDIT @zimpenfish > Murdoch paper, by any chance? Nope, at least not yet. Small mercies I guess.
    - zimpenfish 12y ago
      > People subscribe to it for their daily dose of cleavage Murdoch paper, by any chance?
  - mikegreco 12y ago
    Intelligent =/= Tolerant
- bruceb 12y ago
  Read the comments on Yahoo or Redstate. You will find similar comments. Don't judge a country by the cranks online.
  - 12y ago
vayarajesh 12y ago
India is far from been mature and accept for what we actually are.. in India you will mostly see people who are pretentious and care more about society thinks about them than what they actually feel.. Same is the case for a treatment for "women".. in india they are treated unequally.. the boy child gets all the care, education, preferences and most of all "FREEDOM" and girl cant even do anything of her choice.. india people still believe in child marriage.. I don't understand what makes gay people unacceptable? they are not hurting the society like the criminals do.. they are not disrespecting anyone.. they are simple believing on what they feel is right and who is to decide that being gay is wrong.. I am happy Tim is supporting the gay community because if 100 normal people claim and accept to gay it would have been neglected.. however Apple's CEO supporting the gay community should help a little.. There is one basic rule in life that "Be good, Do good.. Never dis-respect any human or animal"
- srean 12y ago
  > girl cant even do anything of her choice This varies by region and sometimes quite drastically so. In India you do have matriarchal societies, although only in pockets. If a woman walks into a beer shop in Delhi and takes a swig, chances are high that it would attract some unpleasantness. If the same plays out in Kohima or Shillong ... people there couldnt care less. That aside, intrusion into women's freedom follows the same gradient as that of which century the region lives by. On the rest, couldnt agree more even if I tried.
- kamaal 12y ago
  >>girl cant even do anything of her choice.. In India we have messed up things so badly we have scared away a lot of people from having girl kids. I'm not talking about female infanticide and foeticide(This kind of things do happen, even now). But, These days those couples who have the morality of not committing such inhumane acts don't even bother to have a second kid if the first kid is a girl. While I see couples who have boy as a first kid generally go in for a second kid. This is creating a massive irreparable gender imbalance in the society. Only this time, no one is breaking any law or committing any unethical or immoral activity. They are merely exercising their freedom to not bear children. For a country where people have so much hate towards same gender marriages, every parent aspiring to have only boys is sort of straight hypocritical.
enlightenedfool 12y ago
Social change at this scale takes a long time. really long spanning life times. There are precedents like women voting rights, segregation etc. It's easy to criticize taking a snapshot. There's no easy and quick solution. Haven't you heard how people that said earth is not the center of universe were mocked and even killed? The society will get there eventually. In India, I guess we won't live long enough to see that.
Bustard 12y ago
Funny how there's a lot of indians coming out and defending the status quo by saying that in some, unspecified places in India, you don't actually get beat up by police or acid thrown in your face for being gay. Don't you see how ridiculous that sounds?
tn13 12y ago
This is a very gross misrepresentation of India. The article 377 is a British law which is continued like 1000 other laws. One law for example is that each lodging facility should keep its toilets open for public. Which basically means all the 5 star hotels need to keep their toilets open for public use. India might have archaic and North Korea like laws but it also has a non-functional government and police force which is mostly busy with other trivialities so even though article 377 exists, I am not aware of any people being harassed for being gay by government or authorities. Gay parties are common and have known several gay couples who have lived safely together. Even though 200 people are prosecuted under this it is less because for they being gay and more because of other reasons. For example it is very common of Indian politicians to put you in jail for any random reason. In most cases, 377 is applied along with rape, domestic violence or divorce cases as the opponent seem fit. Of course, India is not SF either. I think Indian liberal in their zeal to simply prove themselves "liberal" they are beating up the homosexuality drum needlessly in India. I think this is going to be counter productive and various political factions especially the Islam leaning parties might see an advantage in making life of Gays a bit more difficult.

alexbecker 12y ago

Reading [1], I was absolutely disgusted not only by the facts of the case, but the tone of the reporting.

yourad_io 12y ago

Articles like these make me sympathize with Bond-style supervillains. :(

srean 12y ago

While what you say is true, for the benefit of the readers not very familiar with India I would like to add a few things for context. If from the name of the politician linked by the parent comment you come to the conclusion that homosexuality is frowned upon only by muslim politicians, you couldnt be more wrong. India is an incredibly high variance country. In some metros you would find gay pubs and bars, open kissing on the streets among gay partners with no one bothered a bit (if your state is one of the right wing ones then YMMV). Then again there are states (correlated with Hindi and Haryanvi speaking regions) where parents and family would kill their children, subject them to community sanctioned gang-rape because they married or proposed to marry someone considered different. Note that these 'punishments' and 'corrective measures' have popular sanction within the community and the perpetrators often voluntarily surrender after the incident. It is as if India remains frozen in different centuries in different regions, ranging from the modern to the grotesquely medieval. If you ask your local hindu rightwinger, its of course all the muslim invaders fault that they have to keep continuing these practices. Hinduism of course has done nobody no wrong, just been stabbed in the back (this should sound familiar). Anal sex (in fact anything apart from missionary position) continues to be a crime according to law but it is not something that gets enforced unless the enforcer has some specific axe to grind. That law certainly does not represent practice. Indian legal system is another weird thing. Most of the laws were set down by the colonizers, not to set a framework for justice but to facilitate control. We as Indians have done little to dispose that baggage, rather it has been actively embraced by those in power to exercise similar control, often with a lot of popular support. Quite interestingly, a marginalized community would see nothing wrong in cruel treatment of another marginalized community, often happily taking the lead in the harassment. A low caste person in a caste'ist state would see nothing wrong in hounding someone just because he is muslim, or belongs to a caste that is even lower. A gay person in such a state may see nothing wrong in persecuting other minorities.

avinassh 12y ago
> In metros you would find gay pubs and bars, open kissing on the streets among gay partners with no one bothered a bit I really doubt this. Kissing in public is highly frowned upon for heterosexuals only and there will be a shitstorm if gay couple found openly kissing. Take this incident, happened in September 2014 in Mumbai/Bombay, two couples were harassed by police just because they hugged publicly[0]. Police harass couples all the time if they found indulging in PDA. Read this BBC news report for instance[1]. Wiki [2] says: "Public display of affection is regarded as unacceptable in India. Kissing and hugging are taboo." [0] - http://www.mid-day.com/articles/mumbai-couple-harassed-fined-for-hugging-outside-mall/15609152 http://www.mid-day.com/articles/mumbai-couple-harassed-fined... [1] - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7871304.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7871304.stm [2] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_display_of_affection#India http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_display_of_affection#Ind...

anoncow 12y ago

Read through the comments of an indian news website. Makes me sad. We should love more. I hope people are better than that. A lot of sexuality based and religion based hate. I hope things improve. I hope people love more. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/tech-news/Being-gay-among-the-greatest-gifts-God-has-given-me-Apple-CEO-Tim-Cook-says/articleshow/44985469.cms http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/tech-news/Being-gay-...

Myrmornis 12y ago
Crikey, I always assumed the Times Of India had an intelligent readership.
- srean 12y ago
  Far from it. People subscribe to it for their daily dose of cleavage in their newspaper supplements that can be passed of as journalism. In other words its mostly a tabloid. Some 10 years ago it used to be a really nice newspaper though and I mean really good. Their editorials used to be held up as examples of good writing skills. Now you would find typos, grammatical errors, not to mention factual errors. EDIT @zimpenfish > Murdoch paper, by any chance? Nope, at least not yet. Small mercies I guess.
  - zimpenfish 12y ago
    > People subscribe to it for their daily dose of cleavage Murdoch paper, by any chance?
- mikegreco 12y ago
  Intelligent =/= Tolerant
bruceb 12y ago
Read the comments on Yahoo or Redstate. You will find similar comments. Don't judge a country by the cranks online.
- 12y ago

vayarajesh 12y ago

India is far from been mature and accept for what we actually are.. in India you will mostly see people who are pretentious and care more about society thinks about them than what they actually feel.. Same is the case for a treatment for "women".. in india they are treated unequally.. the boy child gets all the care, education, preferences and most of all "FREEDOM" and girl cant even do anything of her choice.. india people still believe in child marriage.. I don't understand what makes gay people unacceptable? they are not hurting the society like the criminals do.. they are not disrespecting anyone.. they are simple believing on what they feel is right and who is to decide that being gay is wrong.. I am happy Tim is supporting the gay community because if 100 normal people claim and accept to gay it would have been neglected.. however Apple's CEO supporting the gay community should help a little.. There is one basic rule in life that "Be good, Do good.. Never dis-respect any human or animal"

srean 12y ago
> girl cant even do anything of her choice This varies by region and sometimes quite drastically so. In India you do have matriarchal societies, although only in pockets. If a woman walks into a beer shop in Delhi and takes a swig, chances are high that it would attract some unpleasantness. If the same plays out in Kohima or Shillong ... people there couldnt care less. That aside, intrusion into women's freedom follows the same gradient as that of which century the region lives by. On the rest, couldnt agree more even if I tried.
kamaal 12y ago
>>girl cant even do anything of her choice.. In India we have messed up things so badly we have scared away a lot of people from having girl kids. I'm not talking about female infanticide and foeticide(This kind of things do happen, even now). But, These days those couples who have the morality of not committing such inhumane acts don't even bother to have a second kid if the first kid is a girl. While I see couples who have boy as a first kid generally go in for a second kid. This is creating a massive irreparable gender imbalance in the society. Only this time, no one is breaking any law or committing any unethical or immoral activity. They are merely exercising their freedom to not bear children. For a country where people have so much hate towards same gender marriages, every parent aspiring to have only boys is sort of straight hypocritical.

enlightenedfool 12y ago

Social change at this scale takes a long time. really long spanning life times. There are precedents like women voting rights, segregation etc. It's easy to criticize taking a snapshot. There's no easy and quick solution. Haven't you heard how people that said earth is not the center of universe were mocked and even killed? The society will get there eventually. In India, I guess we won't live long enough to see that.

Bustard 12y ago

Funny how there's a lot of indians coming out and defending the status quo by saying that in some, unspecified places in India, you don't actually get beat up by police or acid thrown in your face for being gay. Don't you see how ridiculous that sounds?

tn13 12y ago

This is a very gross misrepresentation of India. The article 377 is a British law which is continued like 1000 other laws. One law for example is that each lodging facility should keep its toilets open for public. Which basically means all the 5 star hotels need to keep their toilets open for public use. India might have archaic and North Korea like laws but it also has a non-functional government and police force which is mostly busy with other trivialities so even though article 377 exists, I am not aware of any people being harassed for being gay by government or authorities. Gay parties are common and have known several gay couples who have lived safely together. Even though 200 people are prosecuted under this it is less because for they being gay and more because of other reasons. For example it is very common of Indian politicians to put you in jail for any random reason. In most cases, 377 is applied along with rape, domestic violence or divorce cases as the opponent seem fit. Of course, India is not SF either. I think Indian liberal in their zeal to simply prove themselves "liberal" they are beating up the homosexuality drum needlessly in India. I think this is going to be counter productive and various political factions especially the Islam leaning parties might see an advantage in making life of Gays a bit more difficult.