4 ms·

Is it OK to be proud to be a gay man? Is it OK to be proud to be a gay white man? If you answer one question with yes and one with no, there might be a proble

• oneeyedpigeon 12y ago
  (Assuming you're talking about in the Western world) Do you not see a difference between being gay and being white? Really? Is it not obvious that one group has been historically repressed, attacked, discriminated against, etc. by its 'counter group', whilst the other has been the oppressor? These are about the most simplistic facts in social history, so I find it very difficult to believe you unaware of them; it seems more likely that you're choosing to ignore them in order to push some bizarre agenda. Just be honest and state the point you're actually trying to make.
  • meowface 12y ago
    I actually think he makes a reasonable point, if you read his last sentence carefully. Realistically, it doesn't make much sense to be "proud" of being gay, just like it doesn't make sense to be "proud" of being white. It makes sense to be proud for staying strong in the face of discrimination and hate speech, but being gay itself is not worthy of any pride.
    • oneeyedpigeon 12y ago
      In this context, when someone says they are "proud to be gay", I think they are strongly inferring the "staying strong in the face of discrimination" aspect since, unfortunately, that's pretty much a given. Also, historically, people have thought being gay is something to be 'ashamed' of, and I think this use of 'proud' is in contrast to that - cf. gay pride marches. No one ever thought being white was something to be ashamed of.
      • V-2 12y ago
        No one ever thought being white was something to be ashamed of. Really? Quite a lot of people think so.
        • oneeyedpigeon 12y ago
          Maybe, but only out of guilt, as a reaction to what has occurred throughout history. Not 'just because' they're white.
          • V-2 12y ago
            This feeling of guilt is still a social construct and a negative auto-stereotype though, because being white by itself doesn't make anyone responsible for - say - slavery, or Holocaust. After all, these atrocities were not an effect of being white as such, unless we somehow internalize a notion than whites are in some way genetically inclined towards committing genocide etc.
          • wuliwong 12y ago
            It is not only out of guilt. In sports or music, many people are ashamed of being white. In the U.S. it is nearly a foregone conclusion that you will not be a good musician or athlete if you are white. White kids who desire to pursue those things definitely can feel shame which has no feeling of guilt attached to it. I'm not trying to make some grand statement about racism or the effects, just giving a pretty cut and dry counter point to the idea that white people never feel shame about their skin color aside from guilt.
            • V-2 12y ago
              I think the notion that "no one ever thought being white was something to be ashamed of [for reason other than guilt]" does not stem from observaton or experience as much as it is an ideological construct - ie. it is needed to fit nicely into a preassumed political theory
    • _pmf_ 12y ago
      > It makes sense to be proud for staying strong in the face of discrimination and hate speech, but being gay itself is not worthy of any pride. Exactly. If you are an aging gay man who has experienced repression and discrimination and lived your life to the fullest in spite of these challenges, you can be proud. If you are a rich white man in Silicon Valley who happens to be gay, well ... hooray for you, I guess.
• pohl 12y ago
  Shorter _pmf_: Check your gay privilege.